female lobe color

[Blue Egg Acres]

We are noticing that our females have different lobe colors; the older and younger birds both.  Some are noticably pink/red.  Some are more of an iridescent blue with a pink undertone.  From a distance they appear pale but up close you can kinda see pink under the blue.  We haven\'t really seen white per se.  Also, some of the males are this way too (the young ones).
Is this a major problem in the young birds?  Will it change over time?
Just to be sure that we\'re looking in the right spot too it is the bald place behind the ear not just the ridge around the ear, right?
Sara (Barbara\'s daughter)

[Mike Gilbert]

As long as you are not seeing enamel white I would not worry about it.   Female earlobes are often pale.   But the males earlobes should always be red without any trace of white - after they mature of course.

[John]

bald place behind the ear

Yes.

[Blue Egg Acres]

Some are more of an iridescent blue with a pink undertone.
Sara (Barbara\'s daughter)

Sara\'s description makes me think dermis and epidermis as in leg color. No concerns about the blue overlay? Only a very few of the birds DON\'T have it.

[John]

makes me think dermis and epidermis as in leg color. No concerns about the blue overlay

Check out the following:
http://marsa_sellers.tripod.com/geneticspages/page2.html#t7
The dermis/epidermis analogy may not be too far off.  For the most part red lobes are just skin with a lot of blood flowing thru it.  Sometimes it may look blue, like the veins in your arm.  A few years ago there was some talk about allowing blue or changing lobe color description to blue.  The idea was that it was related to the blue egg color.
When you say \"overlay\" that sounds like you are describing \"enamel\" white.  The big concern with lobe color is that there is no enamel white visible on the males.  Use the males as your guide because if it is there it will be easier to see on the males.  The lobes on the females may look red, pale or blue.  To me enamel white looks like it is overlaid on the red lobe.  It appears to be a raised white layer over the red lobe, as opposed to just the red color being replaced by white.  It can also be willow or yellow, rather than white.  This photo is not in focus, but you can see some enamel white on the red lobe.
   

[Blue Egg Acres]

Thanks John, that is very helpful. Sara said from you explanaiton that she thinks it is due to the veins, I wll have her take a look at the pic the next time she\'s here to be sure.

[Mike Gilbert]

The \"blue overlay\" is probably a layer of whitish skin with the red underneath showing through just enough to give a bluish cast.   I would never cull for that as there are enough other things to consider in the culling process.

[Blue Egg Acres]

The \"blue overlay\" is probably a layer of whitish skin with the red underneath showing through just enough to give a bluish cast.   I would never cull for that as there are enough other things to consider in the culling process.

Thanks Mike. I was about to panic - I think because of my vision handicap I\'ve overlooked checking the lobe color in my birds. Good to hear it\'s probably not a major concern.

[Blue Egg Acres]

I\'m bumping this up because I\'m hoping for an interpretation of a part of the Standard\'s description for \"Positive Enamel White: Refers to permanent white in face or earlobes where red is required, . . . The term is not intended to include . . . any slight white appearance which lacks the satin-like characteristic of the earlobes of Rose Comb Bantams.\"

What does \" . . . any slight white appearance . . . \" mean? How does this differ from satin-like white?

[Jean]

I believe it means not to refer to a \"white\" flesh/skin tone, which is not the same as enamel white.

[Tailfeathers]

I just noticed last night that one of my #13 Wheaten hens has no red color at all in her earlobes.  It definitely does not appear to be \"enamel white\".  

I just wanted to make sure that I understand all you experienced breeders (that\'s a nice way of saying Old Timers.  LOL!) are saying that I should \"NOT\" cull for this?

Please understand, I would much rather cull down to next to nothing that try to work something out later down the road.

I will try to get a close up picture and post it tomorrow.

God Bless,