Silver Ameraucana Selection Criteria

[grisaboy]

Recently I saw a post on another web site that claimed that no respectable Ameraucana breeder would use birds in their breeding program that are not pure for the blue egg gene.  I have never claimed to be respectable but I gotta tell you that blue eggs are not the number one trait that I am selecting for in my Silver Ameraucana Bantam breeding program.  Below is a list of my selection criteria for 2010.  Blue eggs are on the list, but not at the top.  The \'must have\' list has been mostly determined by traits that I am reasonably certain will breed true.  Each year I try to add more to the \'must have\' list.  I also cull hard for deformities and respiratory disease.
Here\'s the list:  What do you think?


Silver Ameraucana Bantam Selection Criteria 2010
Traits All breeders must have.

Pea comb
Beard
Slate Legs
No red or yellow feathers in males

Traits Selected for but not all breeders meet Standard criteria

Black breast on males
Salmon breast on females
No gray, brown or white on breast of females
Gray stippled back on females
No shafting on backs of females
Blue egg color
Male Weight Max 36 oz
Female Weight Max 31 oz
Red Bay Eye color

Traits recorded but not selected for or against

Beard color on females
Length
Width
Girth

[John]

I have never claimed to be respectable

Curtis,
Amen to that!  It reminds me of talking with Jerry Segler a couple decades ago about genetics and agreeing we just practiced \"backyard\" genetics and never claimed anything more.
Over the last few years I\'ve read your posts on the forum and continue to respect your knowledge, experience and suggestions.  Your \"lists\" look to good to me.

[Mike Gilbert]

Bravo Curtis.   You are on the right track.   It is exciting to know you have a female without much shafting.    She will transmit this trait through her sons.   If I were you I would use the best of her sons over females with exceptional egg color, then you would have something to compare with progeny from the other route.   I am betting the better colored females come from the cockerel mating.   If you don\'t care to go down that road, how about shipping a pair or trio mating this way?

[grisaboy]

That\'s something to think about.  Maybe I will keep one of her sons or grandsons back next year.  I haven\'t kept any of her sons so far. In fact, I have culled all of my roosters except for the ones that I am planning to use next year.
Hopefully, by the time next year\'s Nationals come around I will have some decent birds to share. (HA!  I say this every year and there is always something.)

Curtis

[John]

I will have some decent birds

I know the feeling.  Progess is generally much slower then planned.  There is always some characteristic to improve, but progress is being made because today\'s culls would have been breeders a year or two ago.

[cedarpondfarm]

Until last spring, I hadn\'t raised chickens for almost 30 years.  Not many of us knew much about genetics back then, but I can tell you what worked for me.  I was lucky to find a couple of old timers who were willing to share their knowledge.  Very few breeders wanted to help the competition back then.  

They both told me basically the same thing - to breed the best daughter out of the best rooster to the best son out of the best hen, but not brother to sister.  So I put my number one rooster with my number two hen (to get pullets) and and my number one hen with my number two rooster (to get cockerals), then crossed their best offspring.  I had been breeding D\'Anvers for a long time so most were related 3 or more generations back but I did on rare occasions add new unrelated stock (that\'s a whole other topic because some lines nick and some don\'t).    

They felt that breeding best to best was usually a safe choice (assuming the birds didn\'t have a common flaw) but not always the best choice.  I consistently got a higher percentage of show quality birds with their method than I did when I crossed my best rooster with my best hen.  

Well, I hope I explained that correctly and you can understand my old lady jibberish!  

I\'m excited to be raising Ameraucanas for the first time and am happy to have poultry again after so many years without fresh eggs and chicks!  With the help of AM breeders, I am slowly remembering what I used to know and learning many many things I never knew.  How lucky we are to have their input.

Nita at Cedar Pond Farm in Milton, Florida      

[Jean]

Curtis,

I was under the impression that for the silver variety, it was good to have two seperate lines.  One for breeding females and one for breeding males.

The males with the white in the breasts are supposed to be good for breeding the female line and the dark females for breeding male lines.

Also in my opinion robins eggs are a turquoise color equally blue and equally green.

Good luck with your project, I am also working on the silver variety.  I am crossing to my blacks to increase size.  My egg color is pretty light so I am hoping to darken the blue in them.  I\'ve already noticed on my F1 offspring how much the tail set is off on these guys, one more thing to fix......

[John]

This year my top priorities will be

I penned up all my birds by variety yesterday and plan to set up breeding pens in a couple more weeks.  I have 3 bantam silver cockerels.  The smallest has the best comb, but his type looks more like OE.  The other two have bad looking combs, but better type and good black breasts.  They all tend to carry thier wings too low.  Last year I crossed a silver cock over a black pullet and kept the nicest pullet.  She was beautiful, right up until the day she up and died a couple months ago.  I\'ll try that project again this year and winter more than one.
Top priorities, for me, with them this season:
Combs
Muffs
Type (especially wing carriage and length of tails)

[grisaboy]

I was under the impression that for the silver variety, it was good to have two seperate lines.  One for breeding females and one for breeding males.

I know that Silver Duckwing OE and Silver Phoenix are usually double mated.  I really don\'t want to maintain two separate lines.  It may happen anyway as I select for the best males and best females.  I\'ve got a few years to go before I need to worry about that.

Anyone else double mating their silvers?

Curtis

[John]

Anyone else double mating their silvers?

I maintain at least two separate matings (breeding pens) for each variety each year to produce two strains.  This is only done so that I don\'t breed siblings to siblings or parents.
I know that double mating is often suggested and may produce more winners, but if double mating is truly required to get show quality birds in a variety, I\'ll drop the variety.  As a breeder I have enough on my plate and will leave the double mating the exhibitors.      

[John]

FYI, this topic was going in two directions.  One more about breeding silver Ameraucanas and the other about the priority of egg color, so I split them the best I could.
I took the camera out today and snapped several shots.  Here are a couple of the bantam silvers.  They are all last year\'s hatch, so they\'ll be a year old around April.  As I mentioned before there are improvement to be made, but they are much better than they\'ve ever been over the past few decades.

[John]

Here are a couple photos of the two cockerels in that pen.  They aren\'t great poses and the smaller one (top photo) has some filling out to do.  He has the better comb, but some white in his breast.  Neither have red in thier shoulders.  That doesn\'t mean all their sons won\'t.  White in the ear lobes is still a problem too.

[Mike Gilbert]

Those silver bantam males are looking really good John.   Congratulations for sticking with it all these years.   Between you and Curtis it appears there are male and female lines being developed independently of each other.  

[grisaboy]

maintain at least two separate matings (breeding pens) for each variety each year to produce two strains.      

I try to have two breeding pens as well.  I do it a little differently though.  I put the OLD males with this years pullets and YOUNG males with the OLD hens. Sort of a back cross.  I try to reduce the older birds by at least half each year before setting up the bredding pens.

Curtis