Protein per centage

[cedarpondfarm]

Since I only know enough about feeding chickens to fill a peanut shell, I would never disagree with someone who does have that knowledge.  But scientific research tends to speak in terms of \"general population\" and specialists who work for the state have to be very careful about giving advice contrary to the accepted terms or outside the box because of liablility.    

If I educate myself about poultry nutrition and pick the brains of knowledgeable longtime breeders, then I should know enough to tweak the rules when necessary without doing harm.    

I used the game bird breeder during hatching season and had excellent fertility and hatches.  Now they are back on layer pellets for maintenance.  I try to keep it simple because I\'m too old to remember anything complicated.  


:0)

[Blue Egg Acres]

cpartist: thank you for this info. would you mind asking your phd what, if any additives/feed, are the best to provide breeders during breeding season?

[verycherry]

Great information to consider.  What percentage of protein is best in the layer feeds.

Some around here are only 15 or 16% which just doesn\'t sound like enough.

As I mentioned, I have used both the 20% Pilgrims with fish meal, and the 22% Prime Quality.  I\'m using the 20% Pilgrims at the moment again, because when I went to pick up a bag of Prime Quality 22%, they had a 6 bags of the Pilgrims marked down to $5 a bag since it was about to be too old.  I had him cut open the bags and they all looked and smelled fine so I got them all.  I\'m down to about a bag and a half.    

After the Pilgrims is gone, I wonder if I should keep them on that or go to the 22% again.  

Did the phd mention what is considered too high, or unneccessary?

[Guest]

The protein % of Layer sold around here is 15-16%. Most of the feed stores carry FRM and Purina. I prefer the FRM because it contains animal based protein. The GBB is 20%, and the Professor indicated that even that extra 5% would make the birds liver work harder than necessary. We are in Florida also though, and he had extra concern for this with the many hot months we have.

My thought is that if higher protein was better for laying/breeding chickens, would the feed companies not offer a \"Chicken Show Formula\" or \"Chicken Breeder Feed\" and just charge more for it? FRM offers several game bird feeds; Grower, Breeder and Maintenance...surely there would be a larger market for different chicken formulas. I know some higher protein layer feeds are found in other areas of the country, perhaps these are formulated with other ingredients to help them better utilize the extra protein.  Now I\'m a recent convert to this way of thinking....I also kept my chicks on 21% Starter, until laying age, bypassing grower in favor of the higher protein. But the better feed companies put a lot of research and knowledge in their formulations, so I\'m personally going to go with recommended/appropriate feeds from now on.

I will say my first group of chickens, my Buff Orp \"pets\", that were on layer and allowed to free range a few hours a day had as good or better condition than my breeders on GBB. Now that I have so many more birds and need to keep them penned for breeding I try to give them healthy treats a few days a week in lieu of foraging. Scrambled eggs with chopped veggies, fruit, and sunflower seeds mainly. No bread or salty table scraps. Just as we can\'t get all our nutrients from vitamin pills, I don\'t believe any feed blend can contain every trace element needed for optimal health. Some nutrients like resveratrol\'s and lycopene have only been identified in the last decade, I\'m sure there are many others that have yet to be discovered. Also, since I\'m the \"treat lady\", my birds come running to me and are easy to handle.

I\'ll copy this thread and email to the Professor and share any further insights he may offer.

[Guest]

I\'d also like to add that we are having 90\'s during the day now, my coops are shaded, but the only birds that are panting and holding their wings out are my Ameraucanas raising chicks. They are on the higher 21% Chick Starter as I have no way to feed them separately. This may be further evidence that higher protein is more of an issue in hot weather...I hope the good doctor will speak to this.

[Mike Gilbert]

Apparently the 20 % crude protein in the game bird breeder layena is not an issue here, as I have poor hatchability without it and good hatchability with it.   But I always furnish supplementary  free choice oyster shell, along with grit.
Once the breeding season is over I switch back to a 16 percent laying mash ration, but again offer free choice oyster shell and grit.  This has been working just fine for me so I\'m not about to switch.   Chicks get a commercial 20 percent protein medicated starter/grower.  But I make sure it contains some animal protein for a good mix of amino acids.

[cedarpondfarm]

cpartist said \" my pets that were on layer and allowed to free range a few hours a day had as good or better condition than my breeders on GBB\"



the free range makes a difference

[Birch Run Farm]

Soy protein vs. animal protein- fertility issues?

[cedarpondfarm]

If Sherry is buying commercial layer pellets that are 20% and 22% protein, then it must be an acceptable level.  Perhaps upper limit but acceptable.  My GBB is 20%.

Since a chicken has a fairly short life span, if I slightly stess their liver once a year for 3 or 4 months, it probably isn\'t a big deal in the larger scheme of things.  They will most likely die of old age before their liver gives out.

:0)

[verycherry]

I\'d also like to add that we are having 90\'s during the day now, my coops are shaded, but the only birds that are panting and holding their wings out are my Ameraucanas raising chicks. They are on the higher 21% Chick Starter as I have no way to feed them separately. This may be further evidence that higher protein is more of an issue in hot weather...I hope the good doctor will speak to this.

I\'ve heard (but haven\'t bothered to varify) that soy based protein will burn hotter than animal protein.  If this is true, just switching to an animal based protein feed in the hotter months would be a good idea, even if you don\'t use it the rest of the year.  I\'ve also heard, well, actually read in this case, that unprocessed grains burn hotter than processed grains, so I do try to feed some whole oats along with regular feed in the winter months, and usually toss a few handfuls of oats out just before dark.  I read (in the ABC bulletin) that the oats also help with feather condition.  Whether any of these things are true or not, I have really healthy looking birds that lay plenty of eggs with nice hard shells, so it\'s working for me.

[Guest]

I am surprised that no one here has mentioned a whole grain diet.

I\'ve been feeding whole oats for 3 years now, supplementing with alfalfa meal, fish meal and vitamins.

Everyone gets whole oats, and has free choice the mixture of alfalfa meal & fish meal in a separate feeder. I put the vitamins in the water.

It has been interesting to note, that of the 3 breeds I have, the ones that need the highest protein, and go through the supplemental protein the fastest, are the Marans.

Next, the Wyandottes are moderate in their need for the  protein, and  lastly the Ameraucanas.

If I feed in separate feeders the mix of alfalfa meal, fish meal, the Marans go through it 2 times faster than the Wyandottes. The Ameraucanas eat it the least.

When feeding like this, the chickens self regulate the amount of protein they eat. What is also good about it , is the roosters don\'t automatically get the high protein that is in commercial feed, so I don\'t worry about them getting kidney related problems from too high protein.

This way, they also can get a higher percentage of protein when they are in molt if they need it.

Sue

[Guest]

Sue, I am wondering about your whole grain diet.  When would you switch the chicks to this diet ?  Why oats as opposed to wheat ?  Do you have an easy or hard time finding the alfalfa and fish meal, and how expensive is it ?
Do you recommend any specific vitamin supplemrnt ?

[Guest]

Does anyone here have experience with apple cider vinegar with mother as a supplement ? With racing pigeons apple cider vinegar is frequently added to the drinking water to maintain good acidity in the digestive system.  I wonder if anyone uses it with their chickens, and if so can you say that it has any positive effect ?

[crystalcreek]

I was reading up on the internet because I was interested in finding out exactly what \"fishmeal\" is and I found this link in a discussion about the use of fishmeal in petfoods....

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/fishmeal.html

It seems that the U.S. Govt Code of Federal Requirements REQUIRES the addition of ethoxyquin to \"fishmeal\" as a preservative.  Ethoxyquin has been discussed as a cancer-causing ingredient and PPM (parts per million) in foods for human consumption are limited.....just food for thought, but maybe we want to rethink this ingredient as a protein source if the animals that are eating it are producing our breakfast?  Any thoughts?

[eliz]

A few years back i read an article where Ethoxyquin had been implicated in the health of several specific dog breeds as well. its used allot in pet food, so i try to buy products without it.

 It should be remembered that listed foods on packaging does not require secondary labeling specifics. So if a product lists an ingredient such as fish meal, it doesn\'t need to list what its preserved with.

eliz