The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Ameraucana Marketplace
Advise concerning a new ameraucana breed.
Mike Gilbert:
Suz,
Blue silver (what I have in L.F. Am\'s) and silver blue are two different colors. They are both described in Bantam Standard. Blue silver is essentially the silver pattern we currently have with the dominant BL gene added, which dilutes the black pigment so that it looks bluish grey. Silver blue, on the other hand, is like lemon blue except the birds are pure for the dominant S gene. Brown reds are pure for \"s\" (gold) and lack the BL gene. Take a brown red, add BL(one copy, and add \"s\" (two copies in males - S and/or s are on the sex link chromosome) and you would have a silver blue. So as you can see brown red, lemon blue, blue silver, and birchen are all somewhat similar in genotype.
Mike G.
Guest:
I know about the leg color issues. I also am aware of the Columbian gene influence upon allowing pigment in the legs. In crosses among certain fowl I have had unexpected results in leg color. I cannot find any breeds with both barred and Columbian restrictions...
What about autosomal barring? I looked on ideal hatchery\'s page just to see if there were any barred breeds with blue legs. Campines fit this description. Is there a reason that an autosomal barred bird could not be used? I can pick up a few somewhere off of BYC or Poultry Egg Swappers or PYA in the spring. Also, Sicilian Buttercups have the same color variety and I know of at least two very active breeders with excess birds. Both are white egg layers and one has a simple single comb, which is easy to deal with. Campines have a hen feathering modifyer though so some other breed may be better.
I figured the breeders directory would have local members in it but I won\'t recieve it until some weeks after tommorow when I send my form in. I know of one breeder from whom I got my start in these fowl but I suspect he may have moved or no longer breeds the birds. I was very impressed with his extensive waterfowl and exotic collections. He was up in Severna Park or Pasadena.
Guest:
AmeraucanaMD,
--- Quote ---What about autosomal barring?
--- End quote ---
Campines are ER/ER, co+/co+, Db/Db, ml+/ml+, Pg/Pg, W+/W+, id+/id+. No problem with shank and feet color but the epidermis could be a bit darker because of the ER gene. The birchen gene can add melanin to the epidermal tissues. A person can get rid of the henny feathering (Hf) without a problem. But there is a problem with gene linkage. W/w+, O/o+, P/p+, Db/db+ and Pg/pg+ are all linked on the same chromosome ( group lll chromosome #1). The white skin should not be a problem because both have white skin. The O and P genes are linked very closely , 4 map units, and that is a good thing. The problem does appear in that the db+ gene is linked to the O and P genes by 33 map units while the pg+ is linked to the O and P genes by 53 map units. The O and P loci are found on the short arm while the Db and Pg loci are found on the long arm of the chromosome.
This linkage will impact the independent assortment of the Db/db and the Pg/pg+ in the F1 heterozygotes during sperm or egg formation. I figure to get a bird that is autosomal barred ( Db/Db, Pg/Pg) and P/P and O/O genotypes in the F2 the probabilities are approximately 1 chance in 150. :(
Of couse that is assuming the Db and Pg cross over while linked together.
--- Quote ---I cannot find any breeds with both barred and Columbian restrictions...
--- End quote ---
The barred rock and the delaware are two barred birds that carry sex linked barring and the columbian gene. The extended black gene is epistatic to the columbian gene therefore the bird has a black body with silver barring. In the case of the delaware, the black in its body is based upon eb and black intensifiers therefore the black is essentially removed from the body allowing the silver gene to color the body. Take a look at the tail feathers and hackles of a delaware-they are barred.
Rooster
Guest:
The fact is that even though the chances are remote it is still possible to get a barred slate shanked fowl. It would take awhile, but it would be possible. I may just pick up a hen for fun somewhere. Doubtless someone can ship some eggs come spring. I just like to play with these things. I hatch thousands of eggs in a year with three incubators running from February to December of each year nonstop (except for cleaning). Even with 1/150 luck sometimes runs on your side.
When playing with color I never expect for success in the F2! I have F8 cuckoo silkies and they aren\'t even correct yet!
Not all Delawares are barred. (Delawares are a breed that really needs to be improved. I just have them for fun but they certainly vary) I have two Delaware hens and one Barred rock hen. They all have white legs and pass it onto their offspring as well. I have ghost barreds from the barred rock. Same yellow legs.
Guest:
Thanks for your comments.
Rooster
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