Dominant Bl = Lavender?

[Guest]

The gene that causes khaki, chocolate and fawn is called the dunn gene.  Khaki (fawn) birds have two dunn genes (ID/ID) while chocolate birds have only one (ID/i+).  It is incompletely dominate and dilutes both black and red/gold. It will dilute black more than red. It works just like blue genetically. Khaki (fawn) would be like splash and chocolate would be like blue.

If you were to have a bird that was heterozygous and carried the dunn gene (ID) and dominate white (I) you would have some real problems trying to figure out what was happening.

Rooster

[Guest]

What do you think the bird in the photo is? Is it a chocolate/khaki?

[Guest]

I do not know  the pedigree of the birds in the picture therefore I will not make a guess at the phenotype of the bird. I  gave the genetic information behind the phenotype in question.

Rooster

[Guest]

John, I think your birds are very similar. Why did you stop working with yours? My splash/dunn do not have good quality of feather or lacing. In horses, we see some horses bleach quickly in the sun whereas others do not. I had thought this discoloration was bleaching. Which I do see in the hackels of the F1 father of these dunns. I\'ll attach a photo of him before molting.
I guess I should clarify: is it common for splashes to be varying shades? I have several of the \"white\" which i thought to be splash, and I have several of what now may be splash/dunn, and also several \"varying shades\" splash.

[John]

You may find some black in a feather or two on a white bird.  Of course it is not a good thing.  Splash is white with \"splashes\" of varying shades of blue all over.  The smoky (or whatever they truly are) also sometimes have a bit of \"splash\" to them.  I still have a couple birds related to the smokys.  One is a pullet that I\'m experimenting with by crossing a silver cock over her this year.  The other is a 1/2 lavender d\'Anver (bantam) cockerel (see photo) that I\'m using on the LF lavender project.  They could be smoky, dun or even dominate white/recessive white or ?.

[Guest]

John, I\'ve been trying to attacha photo for quite some time noe and it\'s not going through. I have a question ... did you have any melanin inhibition in shank & eyes with your smokeys? Were your homozygous smokeys grey/blue?

[John]

I don\'t know if you are not sure of the variety of the bird you have posted but it is blue.  
I don\'t know that any of the smoky birds that I have and had are/were pure/homozygous.  I think they had the I^S dominate smoky gene, but again don\'t know that.  I don\'t think it has any effect on the eye color, but the shanks are always very dark slate.  I didn\'t breed for smoky, but used them in breeding projects for other varieties (just to see what I would get).  A few years ago some hatched as sports and I don\'t know what mating they came from.
Go to: http://marsa_sellers.tripod.com/geneticspages/page3.html and scroll down to Smoky to read about it.
Here are a couple more pics.

[Guest]

Sorry, I had tried to attach that picture so many times I was too frustrated to retype everthing again! This bird is one that I feel is expresing the Id/dunn or Is/smokey as well as the Blue. Please notice how his eyes are yellow & shanks are very pink; I am wondering if this is how dermal melanin inhibition looks, which is a problem with I/dominant white ... and is it a problem with Id & Is as well. But from what you say ...maybe not although one photo has a bird with a pink/white beak.
I have gone to the sight and one of the differences in Dunn & Smokey is how it expresses when homozygous. I also received my APA Standards book and Batam genetics book, which are not proving to be as helpful as I had hoped.
I truely appreciate your time in helping me!

[John]

This bird is one that I feel is expresing the Id/dunn or Is/smokey as well as the Blue.

By \"This bird\" do you mean the one in the photo that you attached above?  He just looks like a blue male to me.

[Guest]

Yes. I have 2 other Blue Roosters that are a lovely rich dark blue/dark grey on mane/hackles, saddle, and tail. Granted, they do bleach out over the year. \"This\" Bird begins with this kaki tinge. Also, at the beginning of this thread I attached a photo of 3 hens on a perch, with the middle one being what you had thought a smokey and others thought a dunn. So, I\'m trying to best guess what I have tracking along with the blue so that I can breed it out (and please don\'t say cull as I have many feathered enemys that cull my flock. Survival is first on my list for a \"keeper\"!).