Is THIS bird a Brown Red?

[Guest]

As usual I\'ve managed to misplace the I.D. on a recently acquired new male. I am horrible at correctly identifying Red birds that come into my possession from others.

Here, however, are a series of very poor photographs (they would be poor too if your mother threatened to leave you to walk a mile back to your house in some cold wet drizzle if you didn\'t get in the vehicle!)
This bird is a Minorca hen which I have had in the egg flock (non breeding) for a few years. My question is, is she a Brown Red? She is jet black except for on her hackles. I have used Minorcas as outcrosses in the past for Ameraucanas because of the simplicity of reestablishing Ameraucana characteristics within only one or two generations.
If she\'s not a brown red, what is she?
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I will try to get better pictures tommorow if feeding the horses goes more smoothly. I was thinking of selling her this spring because she doesn\'t particularly have a place in any breeding flocks and is in the wintry mix pen (for eggers and polish)

[John]

I think she is a black hen with red in her hackle, but I wouldn\'t call her a brown red.  Here is a photo of a brown red hen I have.  She isn\'t prefect, but she is the best brown red LF that I\'ve ever hatched.  Note the red starts on the top of the head and comes down thru the hackles and there is lacing on the breast feathers.

[John]

FYI, here is a brown red bantam male.  The colors and pattern are the same for LF.

[Guest]

That is a nice looking hen!

My Minorca hen also has the shafting on the chest. However, she was infected with a respiratory disease at a local fair and had to be kept in isolation (fortunetly it was later tested that is did not spread and the state  ag lab certified the cause of her disease as not threatening to the other fowl). She is still growing back her feathers from the induced molt caused by the disease. Tommorow I\'ll get a frontal shot of her.
Normally her neck feathers on the back of the neck up to about the back of the skull are red on the outside and black on the inside. On her bottom, the red starts at the beak and spread outward. She has a little bit on her primary wing coverts as shafting.

I\'m trying to figure out what she is genetically and if she\'s any use to me before I get rid of her (a backyard fancier friend wants her).
I have a small flock of Black Minorcas for selling eggs. No roosters though.

[Guest]

Lacing on the upper breast feathers is commonly found in birds that are birchen and is associated with the birchen gene.  The problem with black birds is that black birds can be E or extended black, ER birchen, eb or partridge brown or  even e+ or wild type. It takes black intensifiers to make a solid black bird. Extended black would require fewer intensifiers than the other alleles.

I could not find any research or information concerning the black minorcas genotype. Your bird could be birchen but is missing a black intensifier that would allow for the gold color in the hackles. If the bird is Extended black or birchen the shanks and feet should be black. If your bird has lacing on the upper breast feathers, my guess would be that she is birchen.

Rooster

[Guest]

She\'s not a black Minorca. I know that part to be true. I agree that she has Extended black though.  I used to own her brother. He was big and red/black but since I am horrible at identifying these colors I couldn\'t tell you what he was.

She does have chest lacing and normally the orange feathers run up to the back of her head. Her plumage varies with the molt somewhat. When she was younger she had a lot more orange!

I caught her outside some nest boxes this morning and took her photograph from several angles. She does have black legs, but the soles are white and the horn of the beak is quite light. She is by no means a good Minorca, judging by the size of her white ear lobes (pathetic) and her small comb, but her color looks nice. For some reason the flash makes it red?







(Third eyelid extended as I took the picture)

[Guest]

I do not believe the chicken you have is birchen. She should have some red lacing in the upper breast feathers. I agree with John, she is a black chicken with some red in her feathers.

Rooster

[Guest]

I just finished reading a piece on this and related colors. I think the issue is that she is a heterozygote and the E is leaky. She has stippling in the breast as a result as well as red lacing. I don\'t know whether she has lacing or not on her upper breast feathers. She may, for I had her sitting in all the pictures and her upper breast feathers were covered by those of her hackles.

I did, however, locate a cock resembling a brown red (crow winged red) in a nearby flock. He is an Ameraucana mix, as the owner years ago bought some blacks from me and threw them in with his Large Fowl OE and let them mix. OE are commonly red crow winged. I don\'t want him because I didn\'t intend to breed brown reds, I am just curious. Some of the birds in the flock are black and some a strange mixes but many are crow winged and most have beards/muffs/slate legs. I didn\'t ask about egg color. He showed a mutt at a small fair last year and won a small prize.

I have some Barred eggs incubating. Hopefully I will get some Red Partridge barred. To my knowledge, the only other standard breed with this color is the Bielefelder. I used some Key West Gypsies for obtainin the Partridge and the sex linked barring. (The Gypsies are yet another project)

[Guest]

Hey guys!  That\'s a black sex link!

[Guest]

No! Sorry!
She is a Minorca.

I never said otherwise. :rolleyes:

[Guest]

I wouldn\'t know a minorca if it bit me in the tush, but I\'ve raised black sex links for years......that\'s what she looks like, I swear!