HerSHE

[dak]

Look at this hen.  Is this the mottled gene?  The legs sure look slate.

They do.  Are there other melanizers at work here???

[ParadiseFoundFarm]

Does anyone else hear Tevye belting out \"TRADITION! TRADITION!\" from Fiddler on the Roof as they are reading this?  I sure do.  And I think I would be leaning towards tradition.  Keep the standards what they are as they were hashed out by learned, devoted breeders and make the new varieties fit them or not be graced with the title \"Ameraucana\".  Only the best, prettiest, sweetest, awesome dual purpose bird in the whole darn world!!!!!
Just My Opinion
Denise

[Johnny Parks]

I prefer the motto of \'Blue Legs Blue Eggs\'   .

[Guest]

Sorry every time I hear the word Tradition I think of this poster...no offense just a chuckle  


\"Just because you\'ve always done it that way doesn\'t mean it\'s not incredibly stupid.\"

[jerryse]

Look at this hen.  Is this the mottled gene?  The legs sure look slate.

                                Yes it looks slate and we should use it if we can.I have produced a few but have not been able to consistantly produce them.Most say it can\'t be done.The problem is finding a source for these slate leg mottled birds.The standard is not much help.D\'anvers calls for light slate in cuckoo but I see only broken slate at the shows.I did not look for mottled D\'anvers but the standard calls for dark slate but do they really have them?All I am saying is that the varieties in question are genetically pure for slate legs and as such should be considered for acceptance into the breed.The Polish breeders do not seem to be hung up on this issue and they are the example we followed in the beginning.The standard says Darwin considered Houdain and Creve Cour to be sub-varieties of the Polish.So lets look at the leg color on mottled Houdain.They are spotted.

[Guest]

I have D\'anvers.  The millie and porcelain d\'anvers have pure slate.  Mottled and barred have broken slate (white patches on their feet/legs.)  If they both carry the mottled gene why are they different?

[crystalcreek]

While we\'re on the topic of holding onto tradition....

This was said on another thread:

Do we have five breeders who have bred them five years or more?

I\'m sure we do, but still don\'t think the club has any plans to go thru the recognition process any time soon especially with the problem the ABA has with \"lavender\".

This also, was said:
\"My personal preference is to have it recognized as lavender or not at all and will continue to breed, sell and show them as lavenders.  That just drives those old timers over the edge!\"


Seems apparent that the desire to have some traditional, long-standing methodology adhered to is a value both sides cling to---ABA and ABC.

[dak]

Apparently what\'s good for the goose is not good for the gander.

A person who is, let us say, in the upper ranks of the APA, made it known to me that individuals rather than the breed club can place a meet for recognition of a new variety.  Paperwork, $, and the requirements for 5 breeders, 5 years, 50 birds is still the same.

This will be my third year with the Lav/Self-Blues.

Cindy, how many do you have?

I was told as a child that women did not go to vet school.  I don\'t think much of tradition.

[Beth C]

Just a few thoughts & observations. I do think adding new varieties will increase interest in the breed. My personal favorite is the partridge project. But I agree that new varieties shouldn\'t be created at the expense of existing varieties, some of which are getting pretty sparse.

Along those lines, some observations that came up in a conversation with another member recently. This is merely an observation, but it seems the most plentiful varieties are also the ones with the most hatching eggs available for purchase through the mail. While it may not be the best way, for many people it is the ONLY way they can afford. Although I initially wanted buff, b/b/s and w/bw/sw were what I bought because they were what I could find at the time. I have noticed a surge in the popularity of buffs the last few years and I personally think that Gary Ramey has contributed to that by selling buff eggs on E-Bay. Lavender has become extremely popular very quickly even though it is not yet recognized.  I understand the reasons why breeders choose not to ship eggs and respect them. But I don\'t think people find varieties such as silver & brown/red less desirable (I see tons of both at shows in a variety of breeds), I think they are simply overshadowed by varieties that are easier/cheaper to obtain.

[John]

\"Just because you\'ve always done it that way doesn\'t mean it\'s not incredibly stupid.\"

Sometimes that is very true.  When it comes to tradition I\'m with you and have pushed for \"change\" when it looked beneficial.  I\'m not even a \"preservationist\" and am not a member of either the SPPA or ALBC. :stare:
If new varieties are bred and recognized due to popularity and old ones fall by the wayside due to lack of interest, so be it.  
We just need to agree as a club that the new variety fits into the Ameraucana breed and this forum with input restricted to ABC members is the best way to discuss the topic and take polls before votes are ever cast.
 

[Guest]

This is a great line of dialogue...

While I am in favor of continual breeding of the accepted color varieties of Ameraucanas, I would think our club would come to a stagnancy if we did not try to introduce new colors.  I\'m not sure what others have to say about the genetic diversity of some varieties, but I fear the potential for bottlenecking.    

When I started out, I knew I wanted to breed Lavender Ameraucanas.  This will be my 3rd year with this variety, along with Black and Wheaten/Blue Wheaten.  (Buff, Blue, Splash and Silver didn\'t make the cut. )  It has been time consuming, costly and unbelievably frustrating in some cases breeding a project color.  It also has afforded me a glimpse and foundation for better understanding of genetics and where I can draw knowledge to make improvements to my flock and pass that on to others who are also interested in raising Lavs. The progress that I have made, and witnessed others make with their respective projects, has been the ultimate reward!  When I started, this was all just for fun!  Now it has become a mission.  I don\'t think we should close all doors to opportunity to broaden our club\'s interests.  We should push ourselves to grow, and with that, breed for more project colors.  Variety is the spice of life!  I have another Ameraucana project on the side that will be taking a good chunk of my time.  These projects that we are working on are EXCITING!  Implementing a breeding plan/program and keeping records gives these projects a boost of validation and a determined foundation from which to start.  The worst that will happen is that we end up with an incredible variety of EE\'s!  Heck...even the best laid plans....go often askew!  A reality we are aware of when we enter into breeding for these project colors.

I find it healthy for the overall interest of the breed to pursue growth and interest.  If that comes in the form of new colors, so be it.

Meagan

[jerryse]

I have D\'anvers.  The millie and porcelain d\'anvers have pure slate.  Mottled and barred have broken slate (white patches on their feet/legs.)  If they both carry the mottled gene why are they different?

                                                                                  I have pondered this also.It must have something to do with feather color.Otherwise the d\'anvers breeders would have crossed these colors and have slate legs in all of the varieties.So maybe a mottled red or wheaten with slate legs is possible.For sure mille or porcelain would be possible.Just thinking outloud.

[grisaboy]

I have D\'anvers.  The millie and porcelain d\'anvers have pure slate.  Mottled and barred have broken slate (white patches on their feet/legs.)  If they both carry the mottled gene why are they different?

My guess is that this has to do with the E locus.  Most blacks and mottled blacks are on E.  I wonder if you would have the same issue if we put the mottled color on ER or eb?  I think millies are on ew.

Curtis

[Guest]

I was hoping you were going to say that.   B)

[jerryse]

This is interesting about which locus is involved.I do a lot of genetic reading in the winter.I found mention of the columbian gene enhancing melanin in the legs in the presence of sex linked barring.This was on both types of white.Soooo I was wondering can you get a black to carry columbian?Could solve a problem.My guess is it would cause some change in pattern but then again.Should not be hard to find something with the columbian gene for a test.Might work with mottled and chocolate.Might be worth investigating.