The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
Blue Silver LF
John:
--- Quote ---could the silver blue birds be used to increase size in our silvers?
--- End quote ---
The blues that Mike used to create them would have brought an increase in size. It could have been lost already though.
The outcrosses that Jean and I have made to blacks have resulted in larger silver strains also.
--- Quote ---About how many generations before we are back to the pure silver gene?
--- End quote ---
If you mean wildtype (e+/e+) then they were there when \"chipmunk\" stripped chicks hatched the 2nd generation.
If you mean the silver color (S) then it was there with the 1st generation of pullets due to the original cross he made. If he didn\'t breed from any F1 cockerels they were pure for silver all along.
--- Quote ---I think they could be improved over time in that respect through selection pressure.
--- End quote ---
Silvers, both LF and bantams, have always been the flightiest of all Ameraucanas. I have often wondered if the trait is connected to the wildtype gene.
Mike Gilbert:
John, I agree with what you are saying, but when you cross black with silver, and then back to silver, some of the modifying genes that make a black bird totally black (or blue as the case may be) usually come along, and I\'m not speaking of E obviously. Ml (melanotic) and Cha (charcoal) are two known examples of dominant modifying genes that most likely would also have to be bred out of the silvers in order to get back to a silvery gray female Ameaucana. I\'m fairly certain there may be other unknown modifying genes that come into play as well. I originally made the blue cross in the attempt to eliminate shafting (didn\'t really work) and to help lighten up the shade of silvery gray in the females. So the blue silvers were really a byproduct of an attempt to improve my silvers.
John:
--- Quote ---would also have to be bred out of the silvers in order to get back to a silvery gray
--- End quote ---
Yes, you are right. I only was talking about the silver (S) and wildtype (e+) genes, since Jess mentioned \"gene\".
Mike and some others know I outcrossed most of my LF varieties to blacks in recent years (and different times over the decades). It only takes a couple years to get back to having varieties \"pure\" at the e-locus...the foundation of any variety. The problem is there are secondary genes and sometimes unknown modifying genes that are needed to create a color variety. Selecting for and against all these genes can take many years. The odds are not in favor of a bird being \"pure\" for each and every gene required to make it whatever variety it is supposed to be.
The good news is that thru my outcrosses I\'ve seen improved size and reduced shafting in my LF silvers.
Guest:
--- Quote from: Jean ---These birds are probably already bigger than most other silvers out there.
I hope to take some pictures in the next couple days of what a typical silver pullet looks like and how my outcrosses have turned out.
It\'s a big difference.
--- End quote ---
Can\'t wait to see pictures. I like the Silver Ameraucana variety. I have Silvers and have been debating on whether I want to do an outcross to black to improve them.
Jean:
--- Quote from: John ---Silvers, both LF and bantams, have always been the flightiest of all Ameraucanas. I have often wondered if the trait is connected to the wildtype gene.
--- End quote ---
They can fly pretty good too!!!! They are the best foragers in my flock because they tend to wander farther than the rest and they like to roost high.
I\'m going out to get those photos...
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