WTH Happened here???

[Jean]

This is a bird from some hatching eggs I sold a lady this past summer.  And no, there were no birds jumping from pen to pen.

Is there some diluting gene at work here?

[John]

I assume he is supposed to by wheaten.
My guess is he is a silver/wheaten cross.
If he is pure wheaten (e-locus) he still looks like he is silver/gold (S/s), but then I would assume his daddy would have to look the same.
It seems like someone posted a pic of one that came from me a while back that was off colored.  I\'ll try to search and see what it looked like.

[Mike Gilbert]

Jean, did you ever keep any silver/wheaten female breeders?
He looks to be about 3/4 wheaten and a 1/4 silver.

[Jean]

Never crossed the silvers and wheatens and they were housed in different barns.

And yes, from the wheaten/blue wheaten pen.

[Mike Gilbert]

Mutations happen.   It is the reason we have so much diversity within each bird and animal group.   Mutations involve the alteration, usually the loss, of part of the DNA.
There is no record or real evidence of new, more complex DNA resulting from mutations.   For example, Silkies probably resulted from the loss of the portion of DNA that would have bound the feather webs together as in normal chickens.  

[grisaboy]

I am actually working on this color in bantams.
I think that it is a dilute gene.  probably came from buffs somewhere in the past.  Could also be cream gene.  Or maybe a combination.
I first had this color in wheatons and thought I lost it when raccoons raided my barn.  These just ran free because they were off colors that I really wasn\'t trying to progagate.  I really liked the golden males and missed them after they were gone.  I had crossed some of those wheatons to brown red and I was able to get the color back (must be recessive the way it hides).  I am currently trying to put this golden color on the e+ genes.  My goal is to create a true breeding golden counterpart to silver.  I will try to post some pictures later.
Curtis

[Mike Gilbert]

Dilute (Di) is a dominant gene, so I doubt it could be hiding within a normally colored population.  Di is also said to lighten shank color, which is probably why some buffs have the light shanks and toes.   This must be some other recessive type of gene, if not ig (cream) then something similar which has not been discovered or named.    The ig gene should lighten both males and females - do we know if this one does or not?
By the way, didn\'t John cross wheatens with silvers at one point?    It might be very difficult to distinguish a silver wheaten female from a light, creamy wheaten female.  Silver wheatens are described in the 1986 version of Bantam Standard.  

[Jean]

I don\'t know if anyone crossed wheatens or silvers at any point.  I haven\'t done it.  In my opinion I think it would be pointless to cross them given the poor type of the silver variety.

Mike can you give me some pointers about what a silver wheaten would look like?  I don\'t have the bantam standard from 1986.  Maybe I can look through my breeding pen to see if any of the birds fit the description and I can remove them.

[Mike Gilbert]

Silver wheaten males look like silver duckwings, as in O.E. games.   Silver wheaten females look like a light creamy wheaten female.  They retain the black in tails and flight feathers, but the sex linked silver gene lightens the wheaten portion of the feathers to a lighter shade.  There is quite a bit of variance in regular wheatens, so it might be very difficult to tell a silver wheaten female from a light,creamy wheaten female.  All of which explains why the silver wheaten color is not popular.  

[John]

The ig gene should lighten both males and females

That is recessive and may be the most likely candidate.
Many genes dilute, but since one is named The Dilute gene it can cause confusion.

didn\'t John cross wheatens with silvers at one point?

Maybe, put not that I recall with LF.  I was going to do it with bantams, this year, to improve the comb on the silvers, but Curtis talked me out of it.  Although I think I may have done the bantam cross a few years ago anyway.

[Jean]

I got another e-mail from the owner of the bird, and I looked up my NPIP papers, I sent her chicks in June.....

Apparently all her wheaten cockerels were this color and she does have a normal colored blue wheaten.

I still have the cockbird that produced this weird mutation and remember I wasn\'t getting very good fertility out of the pen at that time.  So it would be most likely that all these similar colored birds came from one hen and this cock.   He is a normal looking wheaten, has been shown and on Champion row a few years back.

I also remember putting in a new pullet at that time because my older hens were not laying and I had orders to fill.  I will more than likely pull her out and cull.  I didn\'t hatch anymore eggs from that pen for myself and I didn\'t end up with any oddball birds in my grow out area.

I\'ll probably cull the cock too because of the fertility issues and I am not interested in playing with this mutation.

The lady that has this bird is in Flat Rock, NC if anyone might be interested in getting him.  She is not going to be using him.

[Mike Gilbert]

Jean, unless the mother was a silver wheaten you are dealing with a recessive gene.   That means the mother would be just as much at fault as the sire.

[Jean]

The ig gene should lighten both males and females

That is recessive and may be the most likely candidate.
Many genes dilute, but since one is named The Dilute gene it can cause confusion.

I did a little reading on this one and it looks as though this may be the culprit.  It said it is a mutation.

I\'m still getting rid of the accused......

[Korfus Kluckers]

Weird, never know what is hiding sometimes.

[grisaboy]

Here are sme pictures of golden bantams that I am working on.  These are more Easter Eggers rather than Ameraucanas at this point.  Some of these have e-locus of e+ others are eb or mixed.  I know typical goldens in other breeds are e+ but I like the yellow gold breast on the eb females.  The males would be the same color either way.

Curtis