Author Topic: Embryo Vaccinations  (Read 12649 times)

Sharon Yorks

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Embryo Vaccinations
« on: March 10, 2012, 09:29:11 AM »
Have any of you heard of embryo vaccinations and/or practice it? Below is an interesting article on the topic. I don\'t really understand it all, but it seems interesting.

It would be interesting to hear the method and procedure of how some of you vaccinate for Mareks. I am planning to vaccinate everything I hatch, starting with my hatch that is due next Thursday. I just want to make sure I do it correctly. I was sent 1/2 ml (29 gauge) needles and syringes with my vaccine. I\'m a little confused on the amount to give the chicks. 0.2 ml, right?

ARTICLE:
Marek\'s disease virus (MDV) vaccines of serotypes 1 and 2 administered in 18-day-old embryonated eggs induced better protection against post-hatch challenge at 3 days with virulent MDV than vaccines given at hatch. Embryonal vaccination with a polyvalent vaccine containing equal quantities of serotypes 1 and 2 of MDV and serotype 3 virus (turkey herpesvirus, HVT) was also significantly more effective than post-hatch vaccination. These and earlier results indicate that protective efficacy of single or combined Marek\'s disease vaccine serotypes against post-hatch challenge at 3 days can be substantially improved if the vaccines are injected into 18-day embryos rather than at hatch. Injection of vaccines of serotypes 1 or 2 into embryonated eggs or hatched chicks did not cause detectable gross or microscopic lesions in chickens. Vaccine viruses of serotypes 1 and 2 could be isolated from spleen cells of chickens 1 week post-vaccination, and the titer of recoverable viruses was higher in chickens that received the vaccines at the 18th day of embryonation than in chickens vaccinated at hatch. Although embryo vaccination with HVT usually provided better protection than post-hatch vaccination against early post-hatch challenge with variant pathotypes of MDV, the protection was poor regardless of vaccination protocol. If challenge with variant pathotypes of MDV was delayed until embryonally or post-hatch HVT-vaccinated chickens were 21 days of age, protection of chickens by HVT was not enhanced. Thus, resistance induced by embryonal vaccination with HVT was qualitatively similar to that induced by post-hatch vaccination with this virus.
Sharon Yorks
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Jean

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 09:41:10 AM »
I\'m pretty sure you have to have a hatchery type set up to do embryo vaccinations; it is a mechanical process.

The needles you received to vaccinate are too narrow, it will shred the virus as it is pushed out of the needle and you will be wasting your vaccine.

I believe the proper needle recommended by the manufacturer is:

 
Quote
12. For vaccination, an automatic syringe with 22- to 20-gauge needles, 3/8-inch to 1/2-inch in length, is recommended. Make certain that all equipment is sterilized and change needles frequently.
 
13. Inject each chick subcutaneously with 0.2 mL (two-tenths of a milliliter) of the vaccine.
 
14. Use all the vaccine from 1 vial within 1 hour after rehydrating. Do not save any vaccine that has been rehydrated. Burn vaccine containers and all unused contents.


I use a 1 ml, 25 gauge insulin needle that I buy at walmart in a big box.  It is 5/8 of an inch long.  You don\'t want anything longer as you will poke through the skin alot with a longer needle.  This needle has hash marks on the side and is labeled 1-10 and each 2 units is .02 mls.

I called one of the Veterinarians at Fort Dodge to verify if the needle I was using was ok and they said it was the smallest they would recommend.
Jean

John

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 09:47:13 AM »
Quote
embryo vaccinations and/or practice it?

I\'ve only heard of it used by large commercial hatcheries.
http://ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=1547
http://ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=1563

Beth C

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 10:34:11 AM »
I\'ve been intrigued by the idea as well, but I\'ve never heard of it being done outside of a commercial setting. It would be nice to vaccinate hen-hatched eggs.

The other extreme on needle size: I had my vaccine mixed last night when I realized was out of 20 gauge needles, and I had to use an 18. It can be done, but I think I\'m better inoculated than the birds... :stare:

Birdcrazy

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 10:37:12 AM »
I use a 22 gauge x 1/2 inch needle on day old chicks. I buy these at my local Orscheln store. Yes you are correct for the .2 ml dosage per chick.
Gordon Gilliam

Sharon Yorks

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 03:42:25 PM »
This is such a great forum! Thanks for all the advice. I called my local Walmart and they have 21 gauge 1 1/2 inch needles with 3ml syringes. Will that work? It sounds like the needle is a little on the long side, but if a person (me) is careful about just barely sticking it under the skin, do you think it\'ll work okay, or should I keep looking? My friend, Teresa, is going to hold the chick and be the alcohol dabber.

Also, do you rub the spot after injection or just leave it alone and let the bubble absorb on its own?

Sharon
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John

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 03:55:05 PM »

Mike Gilbert

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 06:40:21 PM »
My syringes and needles come free with the vaccine.
1st State Vet Supply, Dr Peter Brown.   They work great.

Birdcrazy

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 07:58:42 PM »
Using a 1-1/2 needle you could get by if you are careful to not let it protrude through and go out the other side. It will sure slow down the process and with open time of about 1 hr after mixing the vacine you won\'t get as many chicks done. I have used \"1  needles and even with them you have to slow down and be careful- 1/2 inch works much better. We usually gather the chicks in 30 gal rubber storage tubs all lined up. My daughter is the catcher and holder. I swab and vacinate. When we first started we could only do about 50-60 chicks an hour. But with practice our best has been about 174 an hour. That\'s with about 70% bantams which are much harder than LF. That\'s smoking! You do not have to rub the bubble on the chicks neck. Just watch them and keep them warm. I think the alcohol swab cooling them down is harder on them than the vacine. I have never had a chick have adverse reactions to the vacine. All in all, it\'s probably harder on my daughter and me trying to beat the clock and use as much vacine before time runs out!
Good Luck- It\'s not as complicated as it sounds. You\'ll be a pro in no time!
Gordon Gilliam

Mike Gilbert

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2012, 09:12:04 PM »
I have never used an alcohol swap and have never lost a chick due to infection from vaccination.   What would be the point?   If the chicks are clean and the needle is kept clean I would have to conclude it is totally unnecessary.

Birdcrazy

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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2012, 10:53:12 PM »
One advantage to using an alcahol swab is that when you swab the neck area the fuzz almost disappears and you have a clearer view of the skin below. I have done as Mike said and not swabed the area and have not had any bad effects. I do make sure the needle is swabed with alcahol between injections.
Gordon Gilliam

grisaboy

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 01:24:29 PM »
Quote from: Sharon Yorks
Have any of you heard of embryo vaccinations


This type of vaccination is usually done in a laboratory setting where you can maintain a sterile environment.  In order to inject the embryo, you have penetrate the shell.  This introduces the possibility of contamination by various microbial organisms.  You can\'t just push a needle through the shell either.  You have to drill a very small hole in the shell, do your injection, then seal the hole back up with some kind of glue like \'gluco-cement\' or superglue.
I don\'t think this type of procedure would be much of a time saver and the risk of contamination of the embryo would mean you would have to see big rewards to make it pay off.  

The chick vaccination seems like a much simpler and effective process.

Curtis

Beth C

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 06:29:06 PM »
Do they actually inject the embryo or just the fluid?

I started out using an alcohol pad to wipe the needle between chicks, but have to admit I\'ve gotten lazy about doing it. I haven\'t had any infections/reactions from vaccines. Although I did have a chick\'s foot turn black a few days after toe punching it. Anyone had that happen?

Sharon Yorks

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 10:46:39 PM »
So (hypothetically) what happens if your chicks take more than a day to hatch? Let\'s say they start hatching at 10:00am and you see pipping in a few eggs the next morning? I guess my question is, how long can you wait to vaccinate them? I\'m assuming you would want all of them up on their feet and dried off, right? Mine are due to hatch this Thursday. I\'m hoping they all hatch during that first day.

Okay, so put chicks in a separate tub. Alcohol soaked cotton balls or pads next to tub (use sparingly to not chill chick) Mix the solution, shake gently to mix, then draw out an ml or so. Have friend grab the chick I like the least, then dab the back of the neck just enough to lay down the hair so I can see any blood vessels and have friend hold the chick\'s head down. Pinch up a little bit of skin and barely stick needle (facing sideways) under the skin, then only administer .2ml, then set chick under heat light, then pray I did it right...wait! I better pray before I start. Can you tell I\'m a little nervous about this? Give me a horse\'s rump or a puppy and I\'m fine, but a baby chick? They\'re so little! Oh, yeah. Clean off reading glasses before starting. WHAT AM I MISSING?

Is there any incubation period after vaccinating them that the live virus can transfer off of them to anything else...I\'m thinking more on my close since the chicks will be in my office for several weeks.

Sharon
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Birdcrazy

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Embryo Vaccinations
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 02:20:14 AM »
You do not have to vacinate at day old. I usually wait until the incubator is done hatching for that batch. Yes that means the oldest chicks might be close to 2-3 days old (usually only a very few hatch early-usually 90% on due hatch day-and a few straglers the next day). It takes at least 10 days for chicks to build up an immunity after vacination, so they should not be exposed to older birds or housing that might be contaminated with the virus. I usually keep chicks isolated for 3-4 weeks as a precaution.












Gordon Gilliam