Laced Blue Ameraucana

[Christie Rhae]

Aloha!

My life got quadruple busy in the last year so I don't have much time for forums right now.  But I am still working with my birds!  Thought I would post a few pics of my F1 chicks.
I am very surprised how much lacing I have in this generation.  In the spring I will ask everyone's advice on the breeding for my F2 generation.

Hope you are all having a good year!

[Mike Gilbert]

Looking good so far Christie.  Melanotic, Pattern Gene, and Columbian are all dominant, so lacing was to be expected the first generation.   The trick will be establishing purity of those so your blues breed true for color, while re-establishing good Ameraucana type.   If you still have nice blue and/or black Ameraucanas, I think I would put the best colored of these guys back over them.    Then the following year maybe mate the best colored and typed of the F2's together and raise a large number to select from.   Keep us posted.

[Christie Rhae]

Thanks Mike!

Yes I do still have my blacks from John.  When I cull the black and poorly colored birds I will see how many decent laced pullets I have and maybe put a black Am cock over them. Or visa-versa...

I have two separate groups here.  I planned to keep them separate till F3 maybe.  Just learning as I go.

When I ran the kippen calculator for F1 generation I thought the lacing would be less complete looking. Maybe a little more like "edging" but some of these chicks have really nice lacing all the way to their legs!  I am pleasantly surprised.

edit:  guess that is what happens when you start with the best laced bird possible...and Tom Roebucks Andalusians were perfect!

 

[Don]

Good to see you on the forum.  The birds look great and I'm glad your project is moving ahead.  I look forward to seeing these as they mature.  I think I see a couple of black males, did you raise many blue males in this cross?  Keep those pictures coming.

[John]

You've done your homework and are on the right track!  Don't be a stranger here.  I think we all understand life gets busier at times and hobbies, like breeding chickens, have to take a backseat for a while.  Thanks for the update.

[Christie Rhae]

Aloha,

@ Don.. I ended up with more pullets than cockerels with visible lacing genes.  I have 30 chicks to sort through.  I have about 10 black ones. Some are blue but with not impressive lacing so they are getting canned as well.


@Mike,  I am worried that breeding F1's back to Ameraucana will lose my pattern genes.  I think right now they are all "split" for patterns (is that a correct term?  lol)  They have Pg/pg+, Ml/ml+, Co/co+  I assume...since the Andalusian parent seemed to carry the full set.  If I go back to Am now won't the pattern genes just disappear?  But if I go back to Andalusian...then I am even further from Ameraucana type.  Sigh...  I don't know what to do.   What if I bred the F1's to each other?  Then I would most likely get back to Pg/Pg, Ml/Ml, Co/Co but I guess then I will be possibly doubling up on things I don't want like straight combs, etc. 

Unless....Black Ameraucana carries Ml/Ml?   The kippen calculator lists Ameraucana as ml+/ml+.  If Ams have Ml/Ml then maybe that is what is helping this generation to have better lacing than I expected?  In that case maybe my chicks are Pg/pg+, Ml/Ml and going back to Ameraucana will not mess with the Melanotic genes.

Am I talking in circles?

Just stumped.  I suppose I am in no rush.  I could try all combinations and see what works best?  lol

[Christie Rhae]

Ok I just ran the Kippen calc but inserted Ml/Ml for Ameraucanas.  I put F1 back with Ameraucana parent... then crossed those (is that F3 or some other letter?)  and that just made this project look WAY easier!  "Minimum animals to breed" is only 16...instead of the 4000 plus I usually come up with. 
This is assuming John's black Ams carry Ml/Ml.

Intereeessting....

Thoughts anyone?

[Mike Gilbert]

Ok I just ran the Kippen calc but inserted Ml/Ml for Ameraucanas.  I put F1 back with Ameraucana parent... then crossed those (is that F3 or some other letter?)  and that just made this project look WAY easier!  "Minimum animals to breed" is only 16...instead of the 4000 plus I usually come up with. 
This is assuming John's black Ams carry Ml/Ml.
Intereeessting....Thoughts anyone?

Was not the Kippen calculator developed in Europe?   Where they have no Ameraucanas?   So how would they know?   As a matter of fact, short of DNA testing, how would anyone know?  I would not place a lot of trust in these on-line calculators once you get past the very basics.   I believe there is a lot of guesswork built into them.

[Christie Rhae]

Was not the Kippen calculator developed in Europe?   Where they have no Ameraucanas?   So how would they know?   As a matter of fact, short of DNA testing, how would anyone know?  I would not place a lot of trust in these on-line calculators once you get past the very basics.   I believe there is a lot of guesswork built into them.

Yes I agree.  Do you think the calculations are accurate?  I mean after you sort of guess what genes your bird has and manually put that in? 

I can already tell that how things work out on paper is not always how they work in real life...just with my first generation.  Guess that's what makes it so interesting! 

[John]

Christie,

I'm not saying it's perfect, but the Chicken Calculator that we are talking about was developed by Henk Meijers.  I don't know him personally, but from his postings on The Classroom @ The Coop's Genetics and Selective Breeding forum I know that he knows more about poultry genetics than I will ever know.  He has updated the calculator as new genetic information is known/assumed.  I find it to be a handy tool, but as you said we are "sort of" guessing what genes our birds have and then enter into the calculator.       

[Russ]

I was just wondering how this project is going? Have not heard much about it lately

[Max]

I hope I'm not hijacking Christies thread.  She has the lead and hopefully has some F2's almost grown by now. I am about to get started on this project and just wanted to share some pics of my Andalusians. 

[Cesar “CJ”]

Was not the Kippen calculator developed in Europe?   Where they have no Ameraucanas?   So how would they know?   As a matter of fact, short of DNA testing, how would anyone know?  I would not place a lot of trust in these on-line calculators once you get past the very basics.   I believe there is a lot of guesswork built into them.

Yes I agree.  Do you think the calculations are accurate?  I mean after you sort of guess what genes your bird has and manually put that in? 

I can already tell that how things work out on paper is not always how they work in real life...just with my first generation.  Guess that's what makes it so interesting!

Hi Chrisite, I was wondering if there was an update on your project. How did your F2 come out?

[Lee G]

I'm not sure how I missed Max's post showing off his blue Andalusians, but oh lala...such exquisite lacing almost takes my breath away! 

I'm still searching for the right bird (and genes) to introduce lacing into my flock, but in the meantime will be living vicariously through all of you. Sure would be great to hear (and see) how everyone's lacing projects are coming along! 

[Cesar “CJ”]

Is there any upadate about this topic. I know Cliff Redden is working on his too?