The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
Laced Blue Ameraucana
KevinK1962:
Hello,
My spouse is interested in Ameraucanas & has joined this forum. I know a bit about genetics, but not much about Ameraucanas. I hope you do not mind if I comment on this thread.
Laced blues can be on E or ER. Blue Orpingtons are laced, but on E. The patterns on ER talked about in \"Chicken Colours\" refers to the eumelanin (black pigment), being pushed to the edges of the feathers. This allows pheomelanin (colour), such as gold or silver to show as in gold or silver laced sebrights. In order to produce that type of lacing on an ER bird, dark brown columbian (Db) is necessary, as well as the usual genes necessary for lacing (Co, Pg-Ml). It is the Co, Pg-Ml which would give the lacing on blue, without pushing all of the eumelanin to the edge of the feather on ER birds, & should have the same effect on E birds too.
In my experience many black birds carry pattern gene (Pg), as well as the obvious melanotic (Ml). I have recreated laced Orpingtons without leaving the breed by crossing blacks (Ml-Pg) with buffs (most likely Co & Db). As I was not trying to improve lacing in blues, that is where any similarity to your project ends.
If I were doing your project, while waiting for your Andalusians, I\'d try breeding a black Ameraucana with a buff or a columbian (assuming you have them in your breed) & see what happens. If you can stick within the breed it makes maintaining type so very much easier.
I am not sure whether this has been previously mentioned, but Pg, Ml & Db have linkage, (reasonably close together on the same chomosome), so the genes will most often be inherited together. A first cross between a black, hopefully, carrying Pg, & a buff, would be Pg-Ml-db+/pg+-ml+-Db, Co/co+, which ought to make selecting in future generations a bit easier (you\'d be selecting for homozygous Pg-Ml-db+ & Co) & with a cross to columbian, one would not need to think about Db. I\'m sure anyone can easily select away from wheaten (eWh) or brown (eb).
When breeding blues, it seems most sensible to breed blue to blue. That way, one can see what one is selecting; if using splash there is no way to tell whether it carries genes necessary to help or hinder. As someone else said, if all the birds carried the necessary genes there would be no need to breed to splash.
Single combs are very easy to breed out, while white in ear lobes is much less so.
I\'d give Marans a miss, as that would really mess up egg colour, introduce leg feathering, & possibly skin colour (sorry I don\'t know the correct skin colour for Ameraucanas). Also, while blue Marans, in USA, may, or may not, have lacing, the French copper blues do not, and I have never seen a Marans with proper lacing, only edging.
Regards
krys109uk
Mike Gilbert:
Kevin, thanks for sharing. I\'ll confess I had never heard about the necessity of Db for lacing. The Sellers website does not list Db as one of the components for single lacing, but it does list Pg, Co, and Ml. Could you give us a reference on that one? I\'m not questioning that is correct, but would like to know who figured that one out and published it.
KevinK1962:
Hello Mike,
Here\'s a reference:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00071669208417468#preview
Co has a more subtle effect on E & ER than it has on the other e-alleles. It is suggested that the tidy barring of exhibition type barred Plymouth Rocks is due to the presence of Co (E,B,Co), probably with enhancers, & the bright silver lacing of the silver Sussex, is thought to be due to the presence of Co (ER,S,Co).
Hope this helps
Regards
Krys109uk
Christie Rhae:
@ KevinK1962
Thank you for that juicy post! I love genetic info that I have to print out and read over and over until it soaks in. Something for my brain to chew on.
In my research I have come across mention of Db being necessary for lacing but when I see what people commonly think is the andalusian genotype Db is not listed.
Now.. I have some 7 week old blue marans chicks growing up and I swear they have what could be lacing. But Bev Davis says that as of right now marans do not have Pg/Pg Ml/Ml. So I am going to go back to your post and read it over again and see if I can figure out why my blue marans with no pattern genes appear to have lacing.
Thank you for your input on this thread!
John:
--- Quote ---The Sellers website does not list Db as one of the components for single lacing,
--- End quote ---
The Poultry Genetics site does include it as part of the recipe. It is the same as spangled, but with Columbian added to push the black to the edges.
http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html
--- Quote ---ERER PgPg DbDb MlMl CoCo
--- End quote ---
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