The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
Laced Blue Ameraucana
KevinK1962:
--- Quote from: Christie Rhae ---@ KevinK1962
In my research I have come across mention of Db being necessary for lacing but when I see what people commonly think is the andalusian genotype Db is not listed.
--- End quote ---
Christie,
Db is not a component of the genotype for blue Andalusions. \"Blue\" is not a \"color\" pigment, but a dilution of black pigment. Db would push all of the black pigment to the edge of the feather, leaving only color pigment.
Kind regards,
Kevin and Krys
John:
--- Quote ---Db is not a component of the genotype for blue Andalusions.
--- End quote ---
Db may be helpful with single lacing on brown birds, but it would add unwanted color to the blue variety from what I understand.
A variety with sex-linked silver would mask it, as with silver spangled.
This has forced me to go back and do some research.
I like Kevin\'s idea of crossing to buff to bring in Co, so you could stay within the breed. Maybe try two or three approaches to the project.
Mike Gilbert:
--- Quote from: Mike Gilbert ---Kevin, thanks for sharing. I\'ll confess I had never heard about the necessity of Db for lacing. The Sellers website does not list Db as one of the components for single lacing, but it does list Pg, Co, and Ml. Could you give us a reference on that one? I\'m not questioning that is correct, but would like to know who figured that one out and published it.
--- End quote ---
I read the abstract. Carefoot says the black laced blue (Andalusian) had been confirmed to be homozygous for E, Pg, Co, Ml and db+. The latter is not the presence of dark brown (Db), but rather the absence of it. We need Ameraucanas to have the same genotype for plumage color as the Andalusian. Therefore, Db would not be desired. Am I missing something?
For this color pattern I believe any combination of E and/or E^R would get the job done. Since the two are so similar, chances are we will never know short of laboratory DNA analysis.
I still believe the shortest route to the goal is the one Christie proposed: Blue Andalusian crossed with Black or Blue Ameraucana. Single combs are easily bred out. I have personal experience in breeding out white earlobes, and it only takes about two or three generations if you raise enough birds. And I personally believe the Andalusian is closer to correct type than is Orpington. Plus the white eggs of the Andalusian won\'t mess up blue egg color. When I crossed buff bantams with E^R (brown red) bantams, the F-1\'s looked like the Black Golds (gold version of the Silver Sussex color). They are black with narrow gold lacing and shafting. That\'s a long way from black laced blue.
vanalpaca:
Am I correct that no one currently has Blue Ameraucanas with the correct lacing and pattern genes for lacing? But that what is currently available is with edging only? Thanks.
KevinK1962:
Hello, I am Kevin\'s spouse krys. I wrote the first couple of posts under Kevin\'s membership.
I think we are now talking at cross purposes. I think I probably misunderstood one of Christie\'s posts from back in Feb.
I have been trying to convey that Db is not part of the blue Andalusian genotype & that the addition of Db would give a colour similar to that of a sebright. i.e. that Db would push all of the black based pigment (which includes blue) to the edge of the feather.
I don\'t think we are disagreeing about the genotype of Blue Andalusian, other than I think it could be on E or ER.
As Clive Carefoot wrote in his paper, Blue Andalusian would be would be E or ER, Bl/bl+, Co/Co, Pg-Ml-db+/Pg-Ml-db+
Gold Sebright would be homozygous ER, Co, Pg-Ml-Db.
I suggested black (probably E) X buff. I don\'t suppose every black carries Pg, but in my experience black often does carry Pg. I have got to gold laced, blue laced & tolbunt in UK type Orpingtons by using Pg-Ml from blacks, thus avoiding outcrossing to another breed.
I did not mean to imply the F1s would give proper lacing that one could instantly use on blues....I wish it were that easy.
I also breed, & mess around with colours of French type Marans; I have never experienced Pg in any ER Marans.
I am sorry to have caused confusion. krys109uk
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