Artificial light and male fertility

[Don]

The "game bird" folks add lots of extra treats to help their males for breeding, extra hormone tablets, cod liver oil and cock booster feeds supposedly to help them stay extra active for breeding.  The old folks (older than me) will tell you to add red pepper to the feed, add apple vinegar or oak leaf tannins to the water to help the males.  All this together and a little time will usually make things happen.  But I've often thought that the time was more important, and with time practice.  So if you can keep the extra males in with hens (even if just layer hens) it will keep them in practice.  They will fight more but they will be ready when you want them to visit the breeding pens.
I once had a LF pullet who had sores on her back from the males feet/spurs.  I kept her separate and allowed her visits for a couple of hours per week.  They were already acquainted so I hatched her eggs most of the season.  You can actually use your show birds as breeders with a similar arrangement. 

[Schroeder]

As it turns out, 4 of the 18 were fertile, which I confirmed via candling at 8 days.  Three of the four hatched.  I gasped a bit when I first saw them, not remembering their legs start out yellow.  I have another 18 eggs ready to go in the bator tomorrow (I need a bigger incubator.  My Brinsea can only handle 18 at a time, and my Little Giant is very unreliable.)

The cockerel has been with the 3 hens 24/7 for a couple of weeks now.  I've observed him regularly taking care of business, so I am confident of fertility this time around.

(For those of you who haven't yet fired up your incubators, I apologize for the picture.  Don't hurt yourself running to get yours out of the closet!)
Duane

[Mike Gilbert]

Well, that is a start Duane.   I candled the eggs I set on January 1st a second time yesterday.  Taking into account both candlings, the Ameraucanas were 100% fertile, and the Chanteclers 87.5% fertile.    For the second batch set January 8th and candled one time, the Ameraucana eggs are at 72.2% fertile and the Chanteclers 94.4%.  The decline in Ameraucana fertility is attributable to one bantam pullet that started laying - I don't think she and the rooster like each other very well, as none of her eggs were good.  I plan to set another 90-or-so eggs tonight.  My breeders get nothing but game bird breeder pellets and free choice grit and oyster shell.  They also get a vitamin & electrolyte supplement in their drinking water about three times per week.  When the weather warms up the latter will be discontinued.   Temp inside the coop gets below freezing sometimes, so I collect eggs fairly often. 

[Tailfeathers]

I am soooooooooo jealous!!

I've had 9 W & BW hens in a pen for months and I've not gotten a single egg from them yet.  I've got two gals in the upper coop with a bunch of other birds (I hadn't planned on breeding these two) and they are giving me about 3 eggs a piece per week.  I've got a 75 watt bulb shining on the pen from about 20-25 feet away and am guessing it's not giving the hens enough light.  So I'll try to figure something out there because I am REALLY wanting to get the incubator going!

On the subject of supplemental light, I've often read that 14 hours is what's needed as well.  I have my lights come on about 0200-0300 in the morning.  I use those cheap $6 Timers from Wal-Mart and the lights go off about 0800 or so.  So I keep my birds on 15 hours of light.

Having said that, before I bought the timers, the lights were on 24/7.  I personally don't believe it hurts the birds at all.  Ever seen a bird in the middle of summer on the roost or out in the yard with its head tucked under its wing?  When they want to nap, they will.

So anyways, how many others with W & BW's have noticed that their birds don't produce will well?  Four to six months without any eggs is just not gonna cut it with me.  I know I had some productivity problems in the past and I thought it was getting better but this is ridiculous.  I haven't gotten an egg from these gals since they started to molt.  If it's not the light issue, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

God Bless,

[Mike Gilbert]

If they are getting enough light, all I can suggest is make sure they are getting a proper, balanced laying ration, make sure they are free of internal and external parasites, and make sure they have a clean pen.   Fresh shavings do make a difference.  If after doing all this you still don't get eggs, maybe try switching them to a different clean pen.   Maybe the one where you are now getting eggs?   I'm not sure that will make a difference, but you never know.

[Schroeder]

I have LF Silvers, both hens and pullets, in the same coop as my Wheatens, separated only by chicken wire.  They have the same of everything - light, temperature, feed, etc., yet my Wheatens are laying 3 to 4 eggs a week and the Silvers have not laid anything since September.  The only difference I can think of is that the Silvers are all together in a mixed flock, and the Wheatens have their own, more spacious area (as in square foot per bird.)

[Beth C]

I have noticed that some varieties (and it probably varies by strain) lay earlier than others. My WBS always started about a month earlier than the other varieties. My buffs are usually the last, but I have one hen that lays very early. In contrast, my NHR layers lay straight through the shortest days, even w/o supplemental light.

I have also noticed that it takes a while longer to get fertile eggs, perhaps because the cocks need more light? Right now I have 12 out of 15 hens laying but only one has produced fertile eggs, 1 of 2 covered by Old Man. The others are covered by first year males, which may have something to do with it, but, since hens seem to vary in the amount of light they need, wonder if it's the same for males, just not as obvious since you don't have something as obvious as an egg to go by?

[Mike Gilbert]

Hope this does not bore anyone, but I was pleased to have a good hatch on my brown red bantams and large fowl yesterday.   Out of five bantam eggs set (all from one pullet), all were fertile and five hatched.   Of six LF (one hen, one pullet) eggs set, all were fertile and five hatched.   It isn't much, but we are off to a good start on the hatching season.  I'll have larger hatches coming off for the next three Tuesdays, but I'm not setting eggs again for at least two weeks.     If anyone is close enough to pick them up, I'll be happy to share eggs, but I don't ship them.    On a sour note, my water hydrant inside the coop is froze up, so I'll be toting water until we get a good thaw.   The thermometer here had not risen above zero for the last two days, and we had twenty below night before last.    This morning it's a little better, but snowing again.

[Birdcrazy]

 Mike, The offer on the eggs is tempting, but your weather report has me wanting to go south not north. My hydrants froze too and I'm carrying water also. At least we are not -20 just down to about zero at the coldest. It is to be a heat wave here today about 30 then back down for the next few days. Hang in there and throw another log on the fire. Keep warm.

[Don]

Mike, hatch all those rascals that you can and maybe we can put together a "Poultry Delivery Express" to get them distributed over the country once the ice melts.  We just need to work on bird/egg availability and travel routes together to make this work well for everyone.

Congrats on the excellent hatches, not many of us have that good luck with our own incubators.  Maybe we could go in together to buy you a couple of the units from John.  Then we can ship our eggs to you to hatch!

[Tailfeathers]

Mike, thanks for the info and feedback.  They're getting the same layer rations they always have and everyone else gets so I'm pretty sure that's not the case.  Haven't wormed them in awhile but I do check regularly for mites/lice.  No problem there.  Again, I don't think it's worms 'cause none of them are laying and they all seem to weigh just fine and no sign of any. 

They are all out in a pen so there is no shavings on the ground.  The cold now may have something to do with it but I doubt it cause my other birds are laying.  I'm pretty sure I've just got to get more light on them.  Good to see you're hatching.  I'm envious!

God Bless,

[Beth C]

Well, I spoke too soon. We hit a cold snap and all but 2 hens have stopped laying. I've been running the lights 24/7 for at least 2 weeks and seen nary an egg from the rest.

[Mike Gilbert]

Well, I spoke too soon. We hit a cold snap and all but 2 hens have stopped laying. I've been running the lights 24/7 for at least 2 weeks and seen nary an egg from the rest.

What temps do you consider cold in your area?   
Well, I failed to heed my own advice on starting chicks, and lost two of the brown red bantams from my first hatch to pasty butts.   I neglected to start them out the first few days on oatmeal flakes.   The second batch I started out on oatmeal flakes, and no problems.   The other thing I like to do is start them with lukewarm water, as I believe cold water is hard on their little metabolisms.  Second batch was almost double the first in terms of numbers, and have another hatch coming off this Tuesday.

[Schroeder]

Mike:
It seems I learn something of value from you just about every time you post.  Thank you.
Do you buy oats from a feed store or are you talking about oatmeal one can buy in a grocery?  Aren't the flakes too large for very young chicks?  Do you feed the oatmeal exclusively for the first few days or as a supplement to chick starter?  I haven't had recent issues with pasty butt, but better safe than sorry.
Duane

[Sharon Yorks]

I'm not sure how Mike does it, but I buy the Quaker "1 minute" oatmeal in the grocery store that comes in the large round canister. I just hatched out baby chicks that started last night around 8:00pm and ended this afternoon around 4:00pm. After seeing that the first chicks hatched (12 hours older) are pecking a little at the newly hatched chicks, I just now sprinkled a little of the oatmeal on the ground (paper towels over shavings for the first couple of days) so the stronger chicks had something to peck at. It's not like they are gobbling it down, it just gives them something to do.

 The flakes look kind of big, but they crumble real easy when roll them through your fingers and also when they peck at them. I keep them on straight oatmeal for 2-3 days, then slowly mix in the chick starter for a few more days before giving it to them straight. They like the oatmeal better so I try not to leave them on it for too long. Definitely helps with pasty butt. I rarely see any, and even then it seems milder.

How do you do it, Mike? (Thanks for telling me about this last spring. It works great!)