Egg Color

[John]

limit the breed to \"blue\" eggs

The breed is really already limited to blue eggs even though it is only mentioned in the notes in the Standards, with the exception of the ABA disqualification.  Remember it doesn\'t just say blue, but also shades of blue and that can mean...well different things to different people.  I know that some would like to see a deep blue color and although that would be very pretty it is not the blue of a \"pure\" blue chicken egg.  I still maintain that when the inside and outside egg shell color is the same that is the desired color of a blue egg.    
It is good advise to not show females that may lay an off colored egg at a show and be an embarrasement to the breed.

[Guest]

Ok, define \"off color\".
  I don\'t own any that lay pink, yellow or purple eggs, although I\'ve heard (lol) that they exist.  No brown ones either, but I do have ugly olive green ones and they came from a Premier Breeder.  I think that you\'re going to really limit yourself here.  You\'re also going to have to depend on a subjective determination.
  Heaven knows, the judges can\'t even get together on weights, how are they going to get together on color?  You will be depending on the individual exhibitors to make the determination......hmmmm......I don\'t want to be the voice of doom, but I don\'t see it happening.  
  Again, would I show a great bird that layed an olive green egg?  Yes...I will and I have.  I don\'t see that as an \"embarrassment\" to the breed.  I see it as a work in process.

[Guest]

I purchased a set of gold laced wyandotte pullets their color and laceing is correct, one lays  a green egg,  instead of brown, i haven,t caught her yet as they are just starting to lay and it only happens every few days,  don,t you think that its  fair to sell chicks from her,  to me the off colored egg shows crossbreeding and i am not getting what i paid for,  
do you think that your ameraucana customers will be happy with olive green eggs out of pullets they raised from chicks, expecting a blue colored egg,

[bantamhill]

Angela said something \"tongue and cheek\" about only showing cocks and cockerels . . . a note that has not been made in this entire discussion is the importance of the genes the cock is carrying related to color. Anyone wanting to improve shell color needs to test their male birds by crossing to a white shell laying breed and or keep track of the egg shell genetics of their male birds from hatch on.

I am less concerned about hatching from a hen of great type that lays a greenish or lightly tinted egg if I know the genetics of the cock bird in regard to shell color. That being said, also wouldn\'t show a hen that I was sure layed a non-blue tinted egg.

Just a friendly word of advise regarding the importance of the male bird in this discussion.

Michael

PS: I would also suggest that folks might want to cross from large fowl to bantam to improve shell color . . . then all you have to regain is size, which can be done quickly (2-3 generations!).

[Guest]

You caught that, did ya?
  First of all, anyone who thinks that they are consistantly going to get lovely blue eggs from Ameraucanas, is delusional.
Again, THEY ARE A WORK IN PROGRESS!!  
  Yes, I like the pretty little blue eggs, but that is not the sum all of the breed.  You sell them short.  There are certainly other aspects of the breed of which to be concerned.
  The prettiest little blue eggs that I have from my \"pure-bred\" flock, actually came from a second generation leghorn cross.  Still have her....great broody!  
  As for my customers, they know better!

[John]

do you think that your ameraucana customers will be happy with olive green eggs out of pullets they raised from chicks, expecting a blue colored egg,

No, but I don\'t know of any ABC members that sell chicks guaranteeing blue eggs.  It is like expecting chicks to grow into show quality birds.  If someone wants a show quality bird or one that lays a blue egg they have to buy an adult bird that is show quality and/or lays a blue egg.

pink, yellow or purple eggs

Those colors would all lead to a bird being disqualified, but maybe green is a \"shade\" of blue.  I know that a bird that lays a green egg has at least one gene for blue eggs.  If she is of excellent type I would no problem crossing her with a male that came from a nice \"blue\" egg.
 ;)This egg color topic always gets some replys!
   

[Guest]

Common......aren\'t we having fun?
  I am!!  This is a great diversion for me while I\'m printing out shipping lables  for all the green eggs that I\'m selling....LOL

[Guest]

My thought on the subject is this.
If we want to be taken seriously we need to police ourselves from within.
If we have a nice bird, we need to decide if it is worth showing, after learning it has obvious flaws.
we teach our 4-Hers that plucking feathers is a no-no in showmanship, the reason is it makes a mockery of the show. if a white bird has a black feahter, or a black bird with a white one, it is a lie to pluck it out to hide a fault that could disqualify the bird, the proper proceidure it to NOT show the bird.
likewise, if the \"ameraucana\" looks nice, but lays kaki eggs, then in reality it is not an Ameraucana, no matter how nice it looks, there for should not be shown either.
I feel the general publick dosen\'t take us serously because we are all to quick to \"cheet\", and cover-up a flaw rather than be honest and say straight out, it\'s a work in progress, we haven\'t arrived yet.
Hiding flaws only brings mistrust on us all.

[John]

I\'m printing out shipping lables for all the green eggs that I\'m selling

I love it...and am still laughing!

[Guest]

John, you know I\'m truly EVIL!

[Guest]

You may be laughing; it\'s healthy to laugh and I can laugh with you, but nonetheless,this is a VERY serious topic for me, as a new member. I hope to raise these birds not because they are cute ,have beards, or are pretty colors but because they lay Blue (shade of blue/blue tinted whatever!) eggs and I would hazard to guess that is the SOLE REASON most people are attracted to this breed.
I have experience with a breed of animal, Missouri FOXTROTTING Horses, that has a performance trait, FOXTROTTING, defined in the breed standard. The MFTHBA is having problems attracting new people to the breed, one of the main reasons being \"breeders\" selling horses to \"newbies\" that do not foxtrot (These breeders can be sued if ANY claim was made toward that fact). This breed closed their registery in \'84 and now any papered horse can show. There are other breeds of horses that have to individualy \"qualify\" for breeding and showing purposes by exibiting certain performance characteristics (like an Oldenburg). These people get TOP$, and the breed is growing well.
I seriously hope that we work towards showing ONLY those animals that satisfy all breed characteristics or we will have the same problem in attracting people to this breed. Breeding is ALWAYS a work in progress. How many millions of birds have been raised since people started working on this breed? How many  more do we need to go through before we can be held to our own definition?
 

[Guest]

OK, John......Laughter did not work, so you may want to difuse the situation.
But.....  My two cents (by the way, I\'m NOT new to the breed) I don\'t know anyone who is working \"against\" the breed standards diliberately, but recessive genes DO surface on occasion.  Generally these birds are culled, but sometimes, they are needed to complete a project.
  Egg color is a hidden trait, and in my mind it is secondary at this point.  That\'s MY opinion as a breeder and an exhibitor.  You don\'t have to agree.  As a matter of fact.....you go for it.  Somewhere down the line, your pretty little blue eggs will need the proper lacing and body type......I\'ll be there.
  Until then, I\'ll just have to learn to love \"olive drab\".

[Guest]

I hope to raise these birds not because they are cute ,have beards, or are pretty colors but because they lay Blue (shade of blue/blue tinted whatever!) eggs and I would hazard to guess that is the SOLE REASON most people are attracted to this breed.

I think it\'s a little bit of a stretch to ONLY be interested in this breed for a trait that is only mentioned in the INTRODUCTION in the standard- and is mentioned first as a \'pastel colored egg\'.  only later does it say a \'blue egg\'.  all of the things you think are NOT important- beards, colors,- ARE things that are actually being judged and are grounds for disqualification.  if egg color is your sole purpose, then you may be happier with Araucanas- they lay blue eggs already.  I had a beautiful pair who layed beautiful blue eggs- too bad they had no ear tufts! but I felt those were important, since they are mentioned as disqualifiers in the standard.

I have experience with a breed of animal, Missouri FOXTROTTING Horses, that has a performance trait, FOXTROTTING, defined in the breed standard.

and speaking of horses, the American Quarter Horse association has denied registration for decades to otherwise PUREBRED Quarter Horses SOLELY on the basis of \'too much white\'.  the Paint Horse breed exists because of this color-based exclusion.  and the AQHA has recently decided to stop denying horses for registration based only on their white content.  because color has no reflection on performance.

Breeding is ALWAYS a work in progress. How many millions of birds have been raised since people started working on this breed? How many  more do we need to go through before we can be held to our own definition?

obviously, we need to go through enough generations to get all of the parts right, not just the egg color.  because I am aware of NO source of Ameraucanas that can make that kind of offer/promise/guarantee.

 just like when we are buying our 4H lamb or pig the breeder never promises that they will have a perfect loin, a wide enough stance, or whatever else.  even if it does not end up being the definition of a perfect pig or lamb, that doesn\'t mean that it is \'cheating\' to take it to the show.  the judge is capable of deciding that animals fitness to be there.

I\'ve been disqualified for showing a pullet without enough beard.    I\'ve never been DQ\'ed because the judge asked me how blue her eggs were.

[Guest]

Well put....
  Besides,  just to show how contrary I really am.....I raise quarter horses AND paints!!

Hehehehehhehehe!

[Guest]

I would disagree that is well said as I was discussing the role of PERFORMANCE, when it is part of a breed standard, not COLOR in a breeders responsibllity. The future of any breed requires new membership/growth and the largest segment of that will not be SHOW people. Of all the people owning Ameraucanas now, how many do you think worry about being disqualified for not enough beard verses how many look for that blue egg every day?
I will stick by my previous observation that MOST people are attracted to this breed for the BLUE EGG and thus as breeders it is our responsibilty to only show those individuals we know meet the requirements. Otherwise we\'re just going for the \"win\" and doing nothing for the breed.