Chick phenotype

[Don]

Good to know!  So John, do you get rid of WBS chicks that are clear on the head and back?  How does this relate to the males?  Are there any tells regarding the striping in the male hackle, and is this a variety that works best to double mate?  Seems like balancing the clear male hackles and the darker color in the female tails is working against each other.

[John]

Don,
Lots of questions and I don't have many answers.  Wheaten and blue wheaten are a couple varieties I've given up in both bantams and LF.  I don't think we want any markings on the chick's backs, just on the head.
Maybe the intensity of this small line relates to the black in female's tails, male's muffs, etc...Just another question.
The "balancing" and "working against each other" are thoughts some others have had too.  Barbara Campbell (and others of us) would concentrate on a color/pattern characteristic and see improvement while another area's color/pattern would go down hill. 
I know Mike always preferred the lighter creamy top females and I agree they look best, but or many years I've wondered if that is what the natural color should be when breeding for proper colored/patterned males.  I don't double mate and have always felt it just isn't natural to have to do that to get properly colored males and females of the same variety.  In those cases I believe the Standard is wrong and should be changed to reflect the "natural" colors/patterns that "pure" single mating produces.  Ken Aho is a well known breeder of partridge variety chickens.  When I asked if double mating was necessary to produce proper colored/patterned males and females, he said he doesn't do it and breeds for the proper color/pattern on females.  I believe that type of breeding plan should be used with wheatens, but the other way around.  Breed for the proper color/pattern on males first while also concentrating on black tailed females.  Let the breeding determine the shade of wheaten on the females and don't worry too much about some hackle striping...maybe it is supposed to be there with eWh (dominate wheaten).  If the stiping is from a modifying gene it seems like we would have eliminated it by now.  If another breed produces proper colored/patterned wheatens (the same Standard as Ameraucanas) without double mating then it can be done and maybe some crossbreeding would be appropriate.

[Mike Gilbert]

Good to know!  So John, do you get rid of WBS chicks that are clear on the head and back?  How does this relate to the males?  Are there any tells regarding the striping in the male hackle, and is this a variety that works best to double mate?  Seems like balancing the clear male hackles and the darker color in the female tails is working against each other.

Many years ago John Wunderlich, a renowned poultry judge and breeder, sent me (unsolicited by me) a setting of eggs from his Wheaten Old English Games.   Most of the eggs hatched, but I was disappointed that they all had spots and striping, not only on the head but also the back.  But I grew them out, and found the males had nice clean hackles and the females had very good wing and tail color.   So from that experience I changed my mind about spots and striping in wheaten chick down.  I don't think it has anything to do with the hackle striping.  Conversely, we all know you can get male hackle striping from raising nice white downed chicks with nary a spot or stripe.

[John]

they all had spots and striping, not only on the head but also the back.

I didn't think they should have striping on their back, but maybe so.  I would be great if some of you wheaten breeders would follow thru and let us know which chicks feathered out closest to the standard.

[Mike Gilbert]

I think it really depends on the particular strain you are working with.   In almost every variety there are unidentified modifying genes at work that we don't fully understand.   Nobody is right or wrong here;  there is no substitute for trial and error experience.   That's why we should be reluctant to add different blood to a strain unless there is a really pressing need.   When you do that, what you learned from experience before may no longer apply.

[Birdcrazy]

Mike, That makes a lot of sense about adding another line of birds to your flock and risk changing the characteristics of how it may effect the phenotype on chicks you have worked on for years. I never thought of it that way. I guess that comes from experience.