Author Topic: Chick Phenotype Photo Project  (Read 4972 times)

Beth C

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Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« on: April 04, 2013, 08:08:59 AM »
I've started taking pictures of different chicks as they mature. My primary objective is to see which turn out to be the best adults and reference back to what they looked like as chicks to help with early culling. Since results will likely vary by line, I don't know if anyone else will find these useful, but if anyone wants to check them out here's the link: http://s1237.photobucket.com/user/MMFarm/library/2013%20Hatch?page=1 (each band number has it's own sub-folder under 2013 Hatch.)

It may also be fun to play 'guess my gender' with the splits/lavenders, based on the information Mike posted about sexing brown red chicks. (Wish I had earlier pics of 951, the chick I said screamed male from day one.)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 08:11:19 AM by Beth C »

Beth C

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Re: Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2013, 12:24:28 PM »
Sorry for dropping off the radar again - Fuzz is back in school so hopefully I'll be around more regular.  ;)

I wanted to post an update on this little project. As you may recall, I recorded chick phenotype:

type 1=mostly black/lavender, little to no cream, similar to a brown/red chick (all of these were from split x split matings, so none were retained to maturity)

type 2=black with cream bottoms, the "normal" black

type 3=black with excessive cream, particularly around the eyes, what I've heard referred to as clown-faced or owl-faced

and compared it to the birds at maturity, looking for patterns that might help me cull at an earlier age. The hypothesis was that type 1 & type 3 would produce more leakage than type 2.

I also recorded the color of their feet/legs to test the theory Mike posted regarding sexing chicks based on how far the dark pigment extended down the legs & feet.

The results were not what I expected, but very interesting none-the-less:

Looking back at chick pictures, there did seem to be a trend that the feet/legs of females were more pink and males more black, which was kind of cool, but there was too much variance in the actual markings to guess with much accuracy.

The birds that developed leakage looked no different as chicks than the ones that didn't.

Now for the surprise:

100% of phenotype 2 chicks ended up being male

100% of phenotype 3 (clown-faced) chicks ended up being female

I totally did not see that coming!! Obviously this is not a scientific study, since it represents a very small number of birds, and only my line (others have mentioned males that were clown-faced chicks), but certainly makes me want to play with this more!

Birdcrazy

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Re: Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2013, 10:16:50 PM »
Beth, In the words of the actor Artie Johnson "very interesting". That blew me away about the 100% results of your type 2 & 3 chicks.
Gordon Gilliam

Beth C

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Re: Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 07:32:58 PM »
Gordon I was totally blown away - didn't see that coming at all. I was comparing the toes for gender and the phenotype for leakage and overall color. I would never have even noticed a relationship between gender & phenotype except I keep a master notebook with all the band #s where I record info on each individual bird, and as I was transferring various notes to it I started noticing that all of the ones with a notation of phenotype #3 were pullets, then I started looking at the phenotype #2 birds and sure enough, all male. Now again, this is a very small sampling of birds, I did this early on then got busy and was doing good just to get them toes punched, vaccinated & banded, but I'm definitely going to track them all next season. Would be very interested to hear if anyone else has seen a pattern like this w/in their line!

jerryse

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Re: Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2013, 10:19:01 AM »
Thank you Beth for sharing those results.I found it very interesting.I have been trying to find a reliable method to sex chicks.I get many requests for sexed pullets.I have been vent sexing but found that for me accuracy is better when I breed from birds I sexed right.I can not get all the variant types correct.Doing ok on black based LF.

greeneggsandham

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Re: Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 05:49:09 PM »
Gordon I was totally blown away - didn't see that coming at all. I was comparing the toes for gender and the phenotype for leakage and overall color. I would never have even noticed a relationship between gender & phenotype except I keep a master notebook with all the band #s where I record info on each individual bird, and as I was transferring various notes to it I started noticing that all of the ones with a notation of phenotype #3 were pullets, then I started looking at the phenotype #2 birds and sure enough, all male. Now again, this is a very small sampling of birds, I did this early on then got busy and was doing good just to get them toes punched, vaccinated & banded, but I'm definitely going to track them all next season. Would be very interested to hear if anyone else has seen a pattern like this w/in their line!

Hmmm...now I am curious and going to check my records.  I won't have much to go on, but I do have some type 2 and 3 chicks that I grew out.
Sharon
Hubby rues the day he brought the chicks home...

Beth C

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Re: Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2013, 07:39:32 AM »
Jerry: If you've had any luck at all with vent sexing I'm impressed. I tried it and couldn't find a one that resembled any of the examples I found for either gender! I'm really excited to see what happens next year. This could have just been a fluke, I don't remember the exact number of birds w/o looking back at my book but it was probably less than 20. And results would surely vary by line, since I've heard other people mention type 3 chicks that turned out to be male. But I'm definitely tracking this next year, and would love to compare results.

jerryse

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Re: Chick Phenotype Photo Project
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013, 09:35:23 AM »
What has helped me was a dirty jobs show done at McMurry.The vent sexer said the males are shiny.If I breed from correctly sexed birds my percentage improves greatly.