Author Topic: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?  (Read 5421 times)

mustangsaguaro

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Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« on: June 11, 2013, 04:21:06 PM »
Got a question regarding cross beaks in chicks. I have hatched out this year so far 2 chicks w/ cross beaks. A third one which never hatched but I did an eggtopsy on was a fully developed chick and it had a cross beak too. The cross beak isn’t severe but enough to notice it. I have since culled the 2 chicks hatched with it. All the cross beak chicks have come out of the same pen. I have 4 hens and 1 male in this pen. Is there anyway for me to tell which bird is producing the cross beaks?  2 of the cross beaked chicks came from my last hatch (1 was the one that never hatched, and the other hatched and then I culled it). How do I know if it is the male that is producing this or the female? If it’s the female I will probably find her a new home where they only have hens and aren’t going to use her for breeding purposes. Any help on trying to figure this out would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 09:27:50 AM »
I don't believe the genetics of crossed beaks have been well studied.   To me the following logic makes sense.
If both parents have normal beaks but they throw crossed beaks, it must be one or more recessive genes causing the problem.     I have noticed in the past that crossed beaks come most often from closely bred lines (closely related parents), but not always.   So my best guess is that your male bird and one or more of the females in his pen are at fault.   My advice is to test your females individually with this male by penning them seperately and rotating the male, marking which eggs come from which hen, then toe-punching or otherwise identifying each chick that hatches, and raise them until the crossed beaks develop and you know which hen or hens are responsible.  Once you know who the culprits are cull them, including the rooster, and all their chicks by making sure they don't re-enter the gene pool.   The easier way would be to cull all the birds in that pen immediately if you have adequate replacements.   The responsible thing to do is make sure the problem does not become someone else's.     In the past I dealt with the same problem in wheaten bantams for years.  It helps to select for breeders those birds with shorter, stout beaks, whose lower mandibles are well fitted to the upper ones.  If you can see daylight between the upper and lower when the beak is closed you are seeing a carrier of crossed beaks in my opinion.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 09:38:42 AM by Mike Gilbert »

John

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Re: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 09:59:27 AM »
I see the crossed beaks show up in some of my varieties of bantams each year.  Sometimes there are crooked and curved (left or right) beaks also.  My personal opinion is that they are all similar to cleft lips and palettes in humans.  The genetics aren't known, but these shows up more often in some lines/families.   

Jean

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Re: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 10:23:42 AM »
I have found that chicks you help out are the ones that nd up with cross beak.
Jean

mustangsaguaro

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Re: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 10:59:12 AM »
This is all very good info. Thank you for the input. The interesting thing is w/ this pen I have 3 older hens at 2 yrs of age. 1 younger hen about 1 year maybe a little older, and the male is still young too. The male that is in this pen was not used for breeding last year same w/ the younger hen. So I am wondering if the 2 younger birds are culprits of these cross beaks I am seeing. I say this because the 3 older hens last year were w/ a different male and I had no cross beak issues last year.

For the year I am pretty much done hatching now. I do have one last batch in the incubator so will see if any cross beaks come from what is in the incubator.  So if I end up keeping this male (time will tell once chicks are grown) I will be sure not to use him w/ these birds again.

Also, yesterday I was going thru these birds (the chicks) again as I had someone picking up chicks and noticed another crossed beak chick in this batch. I band my birds w/ temporary colored bands. And the band color was the exact same color of the other one in which I culled.  I band my birds, don't toe punch. But maybe next year I should consider toe punching.

Mike Gilbert

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Re: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 11:25:53 AM »
My original batch of easter egger bantams, from Marti Hatchery in Missouri, included a crossed beak pullet.  I did not keep her or use her of course.  But that was back in the early 1970's, so this problem has been around for awhile. 

Russ

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Re: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2013, 05:40:13 PM »
The only variety I have seen a problem with here is in my large fowl Silvers. I thought it was mainly due to the Silvers being so close genetically (line bred). Last year I was very strict on the breeders I used especially with the beaks (of course size, shafting and so many other things also  ;)). I then made 7 different mating's with 14 various hens/pullets and 4 cocks/cockerels making sure not to put a cock over a hen from the same hatch the previous year. Out of the 250 or so I hatched I ended up culling 12 for cross beak. Which was significantly better than the year before. This year I used 14 hens/pullets again with 3 cocks/cockerels from last years hatch. Again making sure to breed hens/pullets with a cock/cockerel from totally different mating's. Of course pairing them up according to their good and bad (compensation breeding). So far out of the 130 or so I have hatched there has only been 2 that had cross beak. Which makes me believe my problem was mainly due to my line being too closely bred like Mike said (due to my pursuit of reducing shafting in hens). I have been toe punching and recording all mating's faithfully the last 3 years, which is a lot of work and takes longer for me. Being I only keep a small amount of my best each year so I have to wait 3 weeks between mating's to insure who is who's. After all improving our lines is the ultimate goal in breeding chickens right  8). Remember this is just my opinion lol         

DeWayne Edgin

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Re: Cross beaked chicks whose producing them?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2013, 10:06:32 PM »
Well i am with you guys on the genetics being closely related. But i bought 30 chicks from a member last year that were mixed up. I ended up with three cross beaks and not one was a Silver. I think it comes from all breeds that are closely related. I had one Buff one White and one Wheaten hen out of 30 with the cross beak. So its not just from Silvers and i sold all three of these hens. So far this year i haven't had any yet.