Author Topic: lavender bantams  (Read 7197 times)

John

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lavender bantams
« on: June 06, 2005, 09:42:36 PM »
The following is from the ABC Sharing Place.  I wasn\'t able to reply to it there, so have pasted it here.

From: SuzsBlueEggsAndHens Sent: 6/6/2005 1:29 PM

John B., anyone else,
I\'m anxious to start on the lavender project.  Could I use a blue Ameraucana pullet to a self-blue d\'anver male?  or a black Ameraucana cockerel on a self-blue d\'anver female?  I think my female Ameraucana chicks are all turning out to be blue (beautiful, by the way  :-) ).  I was thinking of buying a pair of d\'anvers, but just wanted to check before I actually got them that this would be worthwhile for this Fall or if I should wait until I get a black Ameraucana pullet/hen.
Thanks,
Susie

John

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lavender bantams
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2005, 03:20:26 PM »
Mike, Michael, Chris and some others on this forum know more about this I\'m sure, but I would stick with a black Ameraucana whether it is a male or female.  I don\'t think the sex matters too much.  Maybe it would be better with an Ameraucana male over lavender females of another breed, just because a good black male will not hide foreign colors like a female will and it may make for better lavender in future generations.
I think a blue to lavender would result in more culls if you are only going to use the chicks that hatch black.  I know that blues are really half black and half splash - both being equally dominant.  It makes me wonder if the darker splotches on blues are from the splash and if passed on to a lavender may again cause uneven coloring.
What say you others?

grisaboy

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lavender bantams
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2005, 12:00:42 AM »

I copied some info about the Lavendar color from this web page about d\'Anvers.  

http://home.ezweb.com.au/~kazballea/belgians/lowgraphic.htm

Breeding combinations
The following gives a basic idea as to the results of pairing Lavender with Black varieties, Cuckoo with non-barred, Blue with Black & Splash, White with coloured varieties, Mottled with non-mottled & Silver with Gold.
* Lavender (recessive)
eg
Black/Lavender, Black Mottled/Lavender Mottled, Millefleur/Porcelaine, Silver Millefleur/Silver Porcelaine, Quail/Lavender Quail, Silver Quail/Lavender Silver Quail breeding combinations.
Black + Lavender = 100% Blacks, all carrying Lavender
Black (carrying Lavender) + Black = All black, 50% carrying Lavender
Black (carrying Lavender) + Black (carrying Lavender) = 75% Blacks [50% carrying Lavender, 25% pure Blacks], 25% Lavender
Black (carrying Lavender) + Lavender = 50% Blacks [all carrying Lavender], 50% Lavender
Lavender + Lavender = 100% Lavender
------------------------------------------------------------
* Andalusian Blue (incomplete dominant)
eg
Black/Blue/Splash, Black Mottle/Blue Mottle, Millefleur/Blue Millefleur/Golden Neck (Splash Millefleur), Silver Millefleur/ Blue Silver Millefleur, Quail/Blue Quail/Splash Quail, Silver Quail/Blue Silver Quail, Buff Columbian/Blue Buff Columbian, Columbian/Blue Columbian breeding combinations.
Andalusian Blue + Black = 50% Blacks, 50% Andalusian Blue
Andalusian Blue + Andalusian Blue = 25% Blacks, 50% Andalusian Blue, 25% Splash
Andalusian Blue + Splash = 50% Andalusian Blue, 50% Splash
Splash + Splash = 100% Splash
Splash + Black = 100% Andalusian Blue
 
-------------------------------------------------------
How to distinguish between Lavender & Blue
It is very easy to identify a Lavender bird by looking at the main tail feathers. If the outer-side feather shaft is pale & the inner feather shaft is dark, it is more than likely Lavender. The inner feather-web has a darker iridescent-like sheen, extending outwards from the shaft.
The andulusian type blue (Bl/bl) usually have dark feather shafts, regardless whether laced or non-laced. No matter how pale in colour, the blues (Bl/bl) don\'t have the same tail characteristics (as above), as the lavenders. the lav/blues have a combination of traits from both varieties.
Some signs of lav/lav, Bl/bl (Lavender/Blue) are:
* paler lavender shade
* darker feather shafts
* roos with darker hackles.
It is rather frowned upon in the Belgian Barbu bantam world, mixing lav (Lavender) with Bl (Blue), as the above traits are considered flaws in lavender varieties. Lavenders are to have:
Lavenders (lav/lav)
Both genders:
* even lavender shade throughout,
* no sexual dimorphism
* Light feather shafts on outside
* Darker feather colour (web & shafts) on inside. This applies to both Lavender colour & gold/straw colour on Porcelaines.
There is the known feather quality issues with lavenders, eg wing patch in roos, fret marks, etc, although the wing patches are not found in all lavenders. Then there is the trait of darker flecks or darker feathers in the blues, plus the sexual dimorphic traits.


bantamhill

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lavender bantams
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2005, 09:21:28 AM »
My suggestion would be to use black Ameraucana with the lavendar. From my research a cross to black is the recommended cross. One could cross to wheaten if one wanted to go down the millie fluer road - I guess a porcelain wheaten could be created as a by product. I would avoid blue and blue wheaten at all costs.

I have done the first bantam crosses this year using lavendar old english bantam on black Ameraucana bantams. The first generation chicks are hatching coal black - no white wing tips -from the cross - and I did get one blue chick from the cross. I am going to try the lavendar bantam cock on a couple large fowl hens starting this weekend to see if he has any luck!

Suz

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lavender bantams
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2005, 11:55:35 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I received a trio (2 males and a female) of self-blue Belgian d\'Anvers yesterday.  I had wondered about breeding them to wheatens.  I think I\'ll try this, too, since I could start as soon as the quarantine period is over for the d\'Anvers.  I\'ll be waiting for my black Ameraucana to mature enough for breeding.  I think Ameraucanas will be really nice with the lavender color.  John Blehm still has his self-blue d\'Anvers for sale if anyone else is interested in joining in on the \"lavender project,\" but he may be taking them to a sale this weekend, so hurry!

philipu

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lavender bantams
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2005, 12:35:29 AM »

Hi Susie, congratulations.
Glad to hear you got them okay.
Have fun.
phil

grisaboy

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lavender bantams
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2005, 09:26:22 AM »
Suz,
The lavendar gene dilutes red as well as black.  So a lavendar wheaton male should have a pale blue breast with cream color hackles and back.  The females should be a light cream color.  Sounds like a beautiful color to develop.
Curtis