Dominate silver

[jerryse]

This is a update on the cockerals that are LF silver x Lt brn.I hatched some chicks from them and some silver bantam hens.The cockerals are silver no red or straw.Some of the chicks are brown chipmunk as I expected.I am introducing this trait into the bantam line.This type of silver should solve the red shoulders once and for all.Sorry but I can\'t seem to do pics.

[jerryse]

check out the silver cross cockeral with the crested chick post

[Guest]

I wasn\'t aware that there is more than one type of silver gene; please elaborate.
I have a cockeral from [I think] a White Ameraucana over Black Ameraucana, that is very simular in appearence, though another has the silver leaking on the head and neck only, and suspected to be the offspring of another roo the pullets were exposed to earlier.

[John]

From Jerry...

[John]

The other one...

[jerryse]

I discovered this by accident when crossing a LF rooster [from John] over light brown hens.Trying to improve the light brown.I was surprised that the 3 cockerals had no straw or red shoulders as expected.I have decided to call it dominate silver.I have not seen it mentioned anywhere.I believe it is brobably established in John\'s line.How it occured is a mystery since there is no mention of it in another breed.Anyway I consider it a valuable find and a solution to autosomal red.Silver can now be crossed on light brown or BB red without producing golden duckwing.Flock matings with both colors can produce showable silvers and Lt.brown or BB red.I would think any breed with silver could benefit.Adding it to wheaten should produce silver wheaten and not salmon.Genetics is interesting stuff.

[Mike Gilbert]

Jerry, I believe what you discovered was that the  hens used were not carrying Ar (autosomal red).   They (the females)are the culprits when silver cockerels end up with red in the back and shoulders.    There is no way to know whether a brown or a silver hen carries Ar short of test mating them to a silver male with no red and seeing whether the resulting cockerels develop off color or not.

[jerryse]

I will continue to test my theory.The silver/brown cockerels have no straw color as is usual in such a cross and produced some brown chicks [pullets I assume] in their offspring from silver hens.This is a deviation from what silver normally does and deserves more study.I would like to hear of any similar results.I do not know if this is widespread in the LF silvers or if I have a mutant.I have not tried the cross of brown roo over silver hens to see how it behaves yet.Maybe someone else is curious enough to test the silvers.Autosomal red has been a pain for so long it would be great to overcome this obstacle.

[jerryse]

I thought I would bump this topic up. Could this be due to the API gene that was mentioned on THE Classroom at the Coop. What do you think Mike ? I know I observed a suppressing effect on autosomal red and subsequent generations have had a range of suppression from none to complete.

[Mike Gilbert]

Jerry, yes, I believe I posted on the thread you mentioned.   The Ap inhibitor gene makes a lot of sense.   I think it must be incompletely dominant, as you see some silver males with much less autosomal red than others.   Those must be the ones carrying one copy of the inhibitor, while the clean silver males have two copies.    That is my working hypothesis at this point until someone proves something different. 

[jerryse]

I found it to be helpful info for explaining what I have seen. All males were clean in the first small batch. Later generations showed more variation. A incomplete dominant would explain that. I also wonder if AR is normal for the wild type. So maybe when we thought we had a absence of AR we really had a inhibitor present. Brown reds do not show AR so I wonder if the inhibitor is present there. Same for buff. Just thinking it over on these cold winter days.

[Mike Gilbert]

Jerry, I agree on the brown reds, at least in the bantams for sure.   With buffs, I wonder if Ap is the reason for unevenness in the buff color in the males of some strains?   I agree it would not be present in lines where the buff males have a nice even buff color throughout. 

[John]

I also wonder if AR is normal for the wild type.

From what I've read on The Coop site that is still up for grabs.  I believe some believe it is wildtype and others don't.  It was such a hot topic there that it is pinned for easy access.   

If you have links to topics on Ap on The Coop please post them.