What genes?

[grisaboy]

Hello all,
 Is there a reliable test mating that you would recommend to identify if you have the Db gene in a particular strain?

Thanks
Curtis

[Guest]

Hi Curtis,
I rely mostly on the head pattern on chicks. So much depends on what you are use to seeing in your birds. I crossed some California Gray hens under Cuckoo Marans last year and Db segregated out in about 25% of the chicks. Their head pattern was just like the ones in John\'s photos. I call them \"Ewok chicks\" because that\'s what they look like to me, little Ewoks, lol. Anyway, I get the same erratic, broken head patterns on my project birds (easter egger types) that I\'ve been studying for the last 12 years. I believe that Db entered my easter eggers via the \"reverse laced\" hen I started with. In all of the crosses I\'ve made using these easter eggers over the years, every single chick that had the Db type head patterns are the ones that also gave me good lacing. In the case of my Marans, they received Db from an independent source. It would appear that the Marans with Db are also the ones with the nearly solid silver hackles. You\'ll have to draw your own conclusions on that one, I\'ve still got another few years of testing before I feel comfortable with the results.

With everything I\'ve got going on and lack of space, I haven\'t been able to test out the affects of Db on a solid black (E) bird. My guess is that red comes through in the hackles and saddles to some degree.

What breed and variety of fowl were you curious about testing for Db Curtis? Db seems to show up readily against patterned varieties.

Regards,
Dan Demarest
Auxvasse, MO

[Guest]

Okay,
I went rummaging through some of my old notes and photos to see if there was anything I had forgotten or mixed up...

Db adds a chocolate brown to the chick down. In the Japanese, solid colored chicks hatched out more or less solid Brown  and matured as black birds with red-brown heads, hackles, shoulders, wing bows and saddles (sort of like a crow-wing bird). My laced birds hatch out with dark brown infused with a broken zig-zag head pattern. The barred ones had brown added to the head area but most noticeably they didn\'t produce the yellow head spot you usually see on barred-black birds. As the barred F1 marans x ameraucana chick grew adult feathers, you could see a more distinctively defined pattern to the neck feathering. My Japanese birds all came from a one time cross of a male Black Japanese over female Black Tailed Buffs. My (easter egg type) ameraucanas are based on partridge and/or wheaten at the E-locus and my Marans are (E^R) birchen.



The best way I could describe the zig-zag pattern and how I believe that Db effects it is... take the \"typical\" head pattern produced by the different E-locus alleles then wipe an eraser across it from left to right as you go down the top of the head. Then add dark brown in varying amounts depending on the genotype of the bird. I\'m hoping you can see enough detail in the photos I\'ve posted.

Regards,
Dan Demarest
Auxvasse, MO

[Guest]

Dan,

In the near future, I may be looking for a breed that is birchen.  The birds I purchased are suppose to be birchen but they do not look birchen.  I live in central Missouri and like to keep in touch with fellow breeders that live in the area.

Curtis,

If you cross a bird that is partridge( eb/eb, Pg/Pg) with a bird you think has Db, then the some of  F1 chicks should have autosomal barring. If none of the chicks show any signs of autosomal barring then the bird does not have Db.

If any of the birds are carrying melanotic (Ml) then some spangling may show up in the offspring. The spangling would also indicate that Db was present.

Rooster

[Guest]

Rooster,
Here\'s a photo of some F1 chicks with the start of autosomal barring. The females I used were of my later generation Jap x Jap Db project that hatched out completely brown, the male was a Ginger colored bird from my inbred line of crested bantams from Oregon. These chicks are heterozygous e//e^wh, some were homozygous for Db and some were heterozygous which is why their patterns aren\'t consistant.

My Jap x partridge rock bantam F1 chicks came out similar in pattern but they were heterozygous e//e^b.

Do these birds look like what you\'d expect?

Regards,
Dan Demarest
Auxvasse, MO

[Guest]

The male looks Db the wings look good but he has alot of black in the tail. I can not tell much with the female but she does not look Db to me.

Tim

[Jean]

John, how did those chicks turn out?

I agree with you that it is probably coming from Jay Horn\'s stock.  When I got my chicks from Paul S in March there was one in the box with those exact markings on its head and I know he also got a trio of birds from Jay.  Unfortunately all my buffs from Paul died and he sent me some hatching eggs.

I didn\'t get any more chicks with the funny marks when my eggs hatched.  Anyway, just curious.

Jean

[John]

how did those chicks turn out?

Those with the zig-zag pattern on their heads feathered out mostly buff, but with quite a bit of black here and there.
From the original birds Jay got from Arne and me he said he crossed with LF white Ameraucanas to help get darker legs and show quality buff Orpingtons to improve color.  They would also improve size.  I don\'t know where the zig-zag genes came from and the breeders those chicks came from didn\'t show any black.