The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
Breeder selling to hatchery?
Susan Mouw:
--- Quote from: Cesar V. on February 10, 2016, 06:01:17 PM --- Besides that, what they are doing is no different than what every "BBS" novice breeder is doing now. Which is breed everything they got initially together without a plan. I see it on Facebook all the time.
Luckily they're selling blacks, I dont think you can muck up the color, only type haha. They use to sell blues and I still know breeders who have the blues that originated from them and from what I was told they were really good "typed" blues.
Only time will tell.
--- End quote ---
I don't think you can compare what a few novice people are doing with their backyard pens of a few blacks, blues, splash with the visibility and genetic impact of a good sized commercial hatchery. And, while you may disagree with inter-breeding blacks, blues, and splash; there are many other breeders that have been around a lot longer than either you or me, Cesar, that have made that a standard practice. Don't confuse disagreement over methodology with a complete lack of breeding ethics.
Those novice breeders will either get out of Ameraucanas in a few years when their poor quality birds don't win at shows or don't sell enough to pay the feed bills. That commercial hatchery will only ramp up production as the demand for Ameraucanas grow - as it is now.
I do not think Cackles is setting a good example for other hatcheries to follow. I do think they are setting a precedent that will be regrettable in the future.
Cesar “CJ”:
--- Quote from: Susan Mouw on February 10, 2016, 06:14:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Cesar V. on February 10, 2016, 06:01:17 PM --- Besides that, what they are doing is no different than what every "BBS" novice breeder is doing now. Which is breed everything they got initially together without a plan. I see it on Facebook all the time.
Luckily they're selling blacks, I dont think you can muck up the color, only type haha. They use to sell blues and I still know breeders who have the blues that originated from them and from what I was told they were really good "typed" blues.
Only time will tell.
--- End quote ---
I don't think you can compare what a few novice people are doing with their backyard pens of a few blacks, blues, splash with the visibility and genetic impact of a good sized commercial hatchery. And, while you may disagree with inter-breeding blacks, blues, and splash; there are many other breeders that have been around a lot longer than either you or me, Cesar, that have made that a standard practice. Don't confuse disagreement over methodology with a complete lack of breeding ethics.
Those novice breeders will either get out of Ameraucanas in a few years when their poor quality birds don't win at shows or don't sell enough to pay the feed bills. That commercial hatchery will only ramp up production as the demand for Ameraucanas grow - as it is now.
I do not think Cackles is setting a good example for other hatcheries to follow. I do think they are setting a precedent that will be regrettable in the future.
--- End quote ---
I guess with your concern, any hatchery that does has them is bad for the breed.
I think you can compare them. Its not like they have hundreds and hundreds of breeders. Thats why they sale them 3x as much as other breeds. Plus availability is only limited.
I dont care if people interbreed the varieties, I just state that you dont get consistent offspring which is a fair assessment.
I see is a good thing. They're no different say then Whitemore Farms or Billy Bob backyard breeder who breeds in mass quantity.
Susan Mouw:
--- Quote from: Cesar V. on February 10, 2016, 11:25:07 PM ---
I guess with your concern, any hatchery that does has them is bad for the breed.
I think you can compare them. Its not like they have hundreds and hundreds of breeders. Thats why they sale them 3x as much as other breeds. Plus availability is only limited.
I dont care if people interbreed the varieties, I just state that you dont get consistent offspring which is a fair assessment.
I see is a good thing. They're no different say then Whitemore Farms or Billy Bob backyard breeder who breeds in mass quantity.
--- End quote ---
I don't see any hatchery marketing true Ameraucanas as a good thing, but I guess it is inevitable - for the very reason I stated above. They are popular and they sell. As a business decision, I see the purpose and motive behind that.
I am, frankly, surprised that a 'founder' of the breed would be promoting that. I don't see it as in the best interest of the breed.
Dan Pitts:
--- Quote from: Cesar V. on February 10, 2016, 06:01:17 PM ---I dont care, or see it as a big deal. Its sets a good precedent for other hatcheries to follow. Id rather have hatcheries sell "bad" true Ameraucanas than EE's labeled as Ameraucanas.
Also we cant lump all hatcheries together. Cackle has been calling their EEs correctly even before they got their Ameraucana stock, so i can respect that. They did start with a reputable breeder. What ive heard is the owner of cackle brings in quality birds to improve their stock when its needed. Besides that, what they are doing is no different than what every "BBS" novice breeder is doing now. Which is breed everything they got initially together without a plan. I see it on Facebook all the time.
Luckily they're selling blacks, I dont think you can muck up the color, only type haha. They use to sell blues and I still know breeders who have the blues that originated from them and from what I was told they were really good "typed" blues.
Only time will tell.
--- End quote ---
And this is the debate on the other forum as well. I see points on both sides, and I am so new to this that I don't have a really valid argument for either side. I love to see the hatcheries distinguish EEs from AMs, but I also think the market will be flooded with sub-par birds. My guess is that eventually there will be hatchery quality and breeder quality, it's like that with most other breeds anyway, and most people buying from hatcheries won't care. I didn't know a thing about SOP until joining BYC and learning. That's what made me seek out Paul's birds to replace my EEs. I think people that want backyard layers for a pretty egg carton will buy from hatcheries, and those that learn and want more SOP birds will seek out breeders. That's exactly what happened with me. If the concern is how it will affect sales for breeders, I think it will drive the price up. After my fiasco with the BCM, I would have paid much more for Paul's birds than what he charges. Thankfully, he is a very nice man who enjoys helping people, and isn't greedy.
I saw the SLW brought up as well. A friend of mine just went through the exact same thing with those as I did with the BCM. He started with hatchery stock, learned about SOP, and replaced them with birds from Foley. He paid a fortune for an adult trio, but the difference is incredible. When the inevitable happens, and these birds are mass produced, I think it will be a good thing for the breeders and those that want to learn
Susan Mouw:
At this point, I guess there is no use crying over spilt milk. What has been done is done. (how's that for mixed metaphors? lol)
I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing...
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