The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
The "Legacy" Varieties
Susan Mouw:
While there is much talk about, and work on, the "project" colors for acceptance into the APA and, hopefully, ABA Standards, Ernie Haire reminds us that we still have work to do with the 8 accepted varieties that are already part of the Standard.
I'm not much of a "project" gal myself, though I've had splash wheatens. Since it is a natural result of blue wheaten crossed with blue wheaten (as well as other combinations), it really isn't a project color. This year, I have added blue to the line-up here at Sand Castles Farm, so will probably have splash this season or next.
So, what variety is everyone working on? what are the challenges with that particular variety and what is your plan for combating those challenges?
With the wheatens and blue wheatens, the ever present black in the hackles is my target "work in progress". I've seen a few without the black in the hackles and they are just gorgeous! So my goal is to eliminate it in my lines.
My plan of attack is pretty simple - I pick the wheaten and blue wheaten chicks that have no black on them at hatch at all. When they've grown a little and have their adult feathering, I pick the cockerels with the best type and the least of amount of black. I will also cull pullets with any black in their hackles. Then I just take the best back to the best and hope I don't lose other aspects of the coloration in the process. So far, I haven't, but I keep watching.
I brought in a new line of wheatens/blue wheatens last year (from Paul Smith) and have set up my breeding pens to cross the keepers back into my lines. It will be an interesting year to see what I get out of that outcross.
I'd love to hear how other people are working with the challenges in each variety. :)
Ernie Haire:
I am strange about "type". We try to breed toward the Standard that has been approved and accepted by the APA. I guess "type" is so important to me because we worked hard to gain the APA acceptance of the Marans. First it was the Black Coppers, then the Wheatens, and finally the Whites. Within a couple of years of getting them approved, the race was on to have the biggest Marans at the shows. We started seeing big, loose feathered birds with little to no color in the hackles. Long story short, we were seeing too much Orpington in the Black Copper and Wheaten Marans that were being shown. White Marans started showing up that were almost as big as White Rocks. Those White Marans produced more yellow legged chicks than white legged chicks. Strange how that works. With every breed, there is a Standard that we and judges should be using.
In Large Fowl we are working with Blacks, Blues, and Whites here. Like everyone else, as long as we have Blues breeding to Blues we will have Splashes. We will be focusing more on them the next couple of years to help the club with gaining their acceptance.
We have also added Bantams to the mix here We are really enjoying working with them and hope to be able to add more this year. The most challenging thing that we have found with the Bantams in locating them. We have searched for two years and finally acquired Whites last fall and Blacks this spring.
Be Blessed,
Ernie Haire
Poultry 2XL
Birdcrazy:
--- Quote from: Ernie Haire on March 22, 2016, 09:22:03 AM ---In Large Fowl we are working with Blacks, Blues, and Whites here. Like everyone else, as long as we have Blues breeding to Blues we will have Splashes. We will be focusing more on them the next couple of years to help the club with gaining their acceptance.
Be Blessed,
Ernie Haire
Poultry 2XL
--- End quote ---
I Like Ernie have had occasional Splash chicks in my Blue breeding program. Before, they either were sold or axed with the exception of a 3 year old cock that I saved because I really liked his type while growing out. Since we are starting to move toward acceptance of Splash, I will start keeping more Splash for
breeding and showing as AOV.
Peggy Taylor:
I am in complete agreement with Ernie's post. Type is critical to whatever is done. It is so easy to lose sight of this fact. I am seeing Large Fowl Ameraucanas that are truly becoming "large"..... some very obviously over the weight limits of the SOP for the breed. I do hear the occasional judge comment on the size.....that Ameraucanas are getting too big. I've always tried to breed to the standard and have no intention of following the "trend" with this "bigger is better" size thing.
As far as the "project" colors are concerned the Wheaten/Blue Wheaten varieties are what I breed in both LF and Bantam so I will work on the Splash Wheaten project as it will go hand in hand with what I have now. I'm not concerned with the hens but do have some concerns about the "color" on the males with the Splash Wheatens. It has taken me 5 years to raise a Splash Blue Wheaten Marans male that suits me. I sure hope it doesn't take that long with the Ameraucanas ! Wheaten is Wheaten....Blue Wheaten is Blue Wheaten.....no matter the breed so until someone can show me different I intend to use this Splash Blue Wheaten Marans male as a color guide. Any of the multi colored approved varieties all need constant work plus we know what a challenge trying to breed the correct Buff color can be....so I think we have plenty to keep us busy.
But it's great fun !!!!
Birdcrazy:
--- Quote from: Peggy Taylor on March 28, 2016, 12:16:39 AM ---I am in complete agreement with Ernie's post. Type is critical to whatever is done. It is so easy to lose sight of this fact. I am seeing Large Fowl Ameraucanas that are truly becoming "large"..... some very obviously over the weight limits of the SOP for the breed. I do hear the occasional judge comment on the size.....that Ameraucanas are getting too big. I've always tried to breed to the standard and have no intention of following the "trend" with this "bigger is better" size thing.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you Peggy on the size issue with what is being shown vs the standard. I feel sometimes the judges are at most of the fault because they tie those birds and pay no attention to the weight standard. Mike Gilbert made several posts on this subject years ago. There is suppose to be a percentage grace given for overage, but most of the judges were allowing 2-3 times the percent overage that was allowed. I guess their opinion was the bigger the better. This is not limited to Ameraucanas , or even LF and bantam. I raise and show Wyandotte Bantams and the same issue will pop up here and there at shows.
Two issues that I am working on in my Wheaten/Blue Wheaten are better combs and better egg shape when compared to by Black and Blue varieties in those areas. Along with Susan the black in the hackles will pop up, mainly in the wheaten line. This doesn't seem to be a major problem in my flock, but just an area for occasional culling.
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