Author Topic: Egg shell coloring  (Read 6279 times)

Sarah Meaders

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Egg shell coloring
« on: April 03, 2016, 10:45:46 AM »
So many of us are on FB in both Ameraucana pages, so a lot of us have seen the post that was placed on a different chicken page regarding egg shell colors in Ameraucanas, Araucanas, and EE's. In short, the original poster declared that after much research, she has solved the mystery of how to tell an EE from an Ameraucana and Araucana. (Am I spelling Araucana right?) She stated that any egg that is blue on the inside is a true, pure Ameraucana or Araucana, and any colored egg that is NOT blue on the inside is an EE. Obviously, this is flawed logic, and there are many breeders chiming in. But some of the comments from people who know much more than I do has me scratching my head, and although I have read the exact same information on many expert scientific articles, I am seeing something different in my own eggs.

The statement is that ALL blue eggs will be the same blue on the inside AFTER the membrane is removed completely. There is also a statement that if the "blue" egg is NOT the same blue on the inside, that it is an EE.

Scientifically, the blue shell is said to have had the oocyanine deposited through the building of the shell, therefore, logic says it will be the same color through and through. Here is my problem with the blanket statement that all blue eggs will be the same blue through and through:

I have very beautiful, very pure Ameraucanas from two different breeders who know what they are doing. I can assure you, my birds are pure Ameraucanas. I have been getting blue eggs for several months now; various shades of blue, a couple are already almost white at this point in their cycle, and some are almost a grayish blue. I am very happy with the blues on my eggs. I am almost obsessive about my shells. I don't let my family crack open any blue eggs, because I examine each blue egg for fertility and inner shell color.

Not once, not a single time, have I cracked open a blue egg, carefully cleaned the membrane off, sometimes more than one layer of membrane, have I ever had a inner shell the same color as the outer. Every. Single. Egg. is either white on the inside, or an EXTREMELY pale blue compared with the outside. Yes, I make sure I get the membrane off completely, and I do so immediately after opening the egg so as to not let it dry.

Also, this thread has many statements that all brown/tan/pink eggs will NOT have the same color as the outside since the brown "sprayer" is at the end of the tunnel. Scientific logic says that should be true. HOWEVER, I have a lovely pinkish egg from my flock (I have several breeds of several different colored egg layers)  that is the exact same pinkish color on the inside as it is on the outside.

My point, either I have a flock full of mixed breed EE's and their eggs aren't really blue and I am imagining things, which means so are my kids, my hubs, and all my friends who love the multiple colored eggs I have....OR...even though scientifically ALL blue egg shells SHOULD be blue throughout, there are always exceptions, and the oocyanine is not always evenly deposited and distributed during the shell making on every blue laying hen.

Am I the only one who has painstaking cleaned the inside of a freshly laid blue egg, looking for that blue coloring, and ended up wondering why it is very pale, or even white? Is it just me? I realize this may not even matter to some, but when I read so many comments that state "if the inside shell is NOT the same blue as the outside, it is an EE", that kind of gets my attention. 

Someone chime in and tell me I am not crazy! Or color blind! Or inept!

Proclaim Yahweh's greatness with me! Let us exhale His name together! Psalm 34:3

Don

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2016, 08:38:36 AM »
It is apparent that the term EE means many things to different people.  And it sounds like there are still many that put egg color at the top of the list.  I am getting a multitude of calls/emails for "Real" blue egg laying "pullets".  It is definitely an interesting concept to have egg color define the EE rather than Feather color, type and other traits.  I have not personally seen a pink egg color on the inside and not sure if there could be some chemical reasons that might cause this to happen.  The different soil conditions for Hydrangeas comes to mind?

There are often "Sports" that can happen from any group of poultry over time.  As far as the blue coloring being a different shade on the inside and outside, I am not surprised that some vary in shade of blue.  I think the goal of having the blue the same color inside and out more refers to the teal or greenish tint rather than the density of the blue color thru the shell thickness. 
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 11:20:10 AM by Don »
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Don

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2016, 01:23:38 PM »
I had a request from someone this week, I thought must be from a similar stream of thought.
    " do you have a line of a certain blue charted color of eggs?

I wasn't sure what they were really looking for, tried to ask some questions.  Very limited text bites.  Tried to give them some options, but not sure if they acquired what they were looking for. 
 
Don Cash
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Birdcrazy

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2016, 11:51:03 PM »
I had a request from someone this week, I thought must be from a similar stream of thought.
    " do you have a line of a certain blue charted color of eggs?

I wasn't sure what they were really looking for, tried to ask some questions.  Very limited text bites.  Tried to give them some options, but not sure if they acquired what they were looking for. 
 

Don, I got the same email this week. Very vague what they were asking information about.
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Sarah Meaders

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2016, 07:17:20 AM »
There seems to be a recent ramp up of egg color fanaticism on Facebook lately. Don't get me wrong, I am serious about egg color, too, but a recent one really has my attention. Someone posted on both pages about some BBS being sold and the breeder stating the eggs from his stock is a mint green. This has raised some discussion about whether there should be any green whatsoever in the Ameraucana egg. Someone brought up the egg color chart, and others said that if their stock laid a blue egg with even a hint of green, they would not continue to breed that chicken, etc etc.

So here's my current question about egg color...some of my girls lay a very pretty blue egg, but in different shades of light, you can see a hint of a very soft minty green...not a green egg by any means, but minty none the less. Of course the egg chart has different levels of minty green on it, and even some lavendar-ish in the lower A numbers.

Is this the consensus of the Ameraucana Breeders Club that minty green, and lots of other colors on the ABC chart are, in fact, unacceptable and should not be bred, or if they are, should be sold as EE's? I have some eggs in the incubator right now that have minty hints in the shell, and I just sold two dozen hatching eggs that on a cloudy day look minty.

Another question....if your stunning looking Ameraucana lays an egg that is not sky blue, is it dishonest to show that bird as Ameraucana? Especially since so many breeders are improving type and coloring over egg shell?

Not trying to start an argument here, but this is my first year selecting breeders, and hopefully my first year to actually enter my beauties. I want to make sure I understand and stand with the official position of my club and represent the ABC honorable.
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Max

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2016, 09:51:31 AM »
Although blue egg color is the goal, it should not define the difference between an EE and a true Ameraucana. Egg color is not part of the SOP description. If anyone is choosing egg color over type, then they are doing an injustice to the breed.
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Susan Mouw

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2016, 10:10:34 AM »
I agree with Max.  Egg color is stated in the SOP, but if we lose type over egg color, then we're going to pay those consequences for a long time forward.

Egg color is only a part of the picture - to focus on it as the primary defining characteristic of the Ameraucana breed would be akin to focusing on comb, or just beards and muff - anytime you lose sight of the whole bird, and the entire picture, you are sacrificing long term goals and overall quality.

I think the focus on the blue egg color now is just symptomatic of all the new people coming into the breed and it is cyclical.  It has come up as a focus several times just since I've been breeding (2010) and I'm sure will repeat itself in the future.

We just have to keep reminding ...ourselves...and those that ask that blue egg color is not the single defining characteristic of the breed and to focus on the big picture.
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Don

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 01:28:29 PM »
Sarah,  It is called the "Standard of Perfection" and for just this reason it lists all of the things that we would like the birds to include or Be.  I would say that anyone that has a line of birds that totally agrees with the SOP would be in pretty good shape to name their price.  (That is if everyone interpreted all of the words in the SOP exactly the same way.)

Everyone would prefer to have Sky Blue eggs.  These would be especially nice if they were Carolina Blue.  And that is our goal too.  But we are not there yet and some birds will lay eggs closer than others.  So when you look at type, feather color and quality, combs, weight and size, etc etc, you also look at the egg color that the hens produce.  Hopefully you know what color egg the males were hatched from too.  Every year you have to make decisions based on the goals for that breeding season.  I would not throw out a "tremendous bird" if they produce a slightly off colored egg. I wouldn't put all of my hopes in that one bird either.  But would pair her with a male that came from the nicest egg color, mark the young and watch to see if the traits were better than last year.  But it is best to be honest with folks buying stock or eggs. Just Show them eggs produced by the birds you are selling.     

Regarding off colored eggs indicating EEs.  I would think that it is very easy to get better egg color in a flock of EEs.  You probably don't care what color the birds are.  And you probably don't care how they carry themselves or if they have good combs, etc.  But it they are good producers of better blue eggs you can make progress year after year.  As long as something doesn't trigger the brown egg genes to start acting again.  So using egg color to define EEs seems odd to me.     
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 01:37:38 PM by Don »
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DeWayne Edgin

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Re: Egg shell coloring
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 09:45:48 PM »
I wonder if these blacks laying a green tinted egg are splits for Lavender ( self blue ). Blacks have the best egg color and are used to help fix green eggs in the Lavenders. My thoughts on this is, there are lots of blacks around the US that have good egg color. So if you have this problem it would be fairly easy to just get a new line instead of trying to fix green eggs.