The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club > Breeding
Cross beak - genetic, environment...what?
Susan Mouw:
I have experienced a strange situation this year. I shipped some chicks, a mix of wheaten/blue wheaten and black to a very nice lady earlier this year. About three weeks after receiving the chicks, she sent me a picture of one with a mild cross-beak. I offered to refund her for that chick, but she didn't want that - she just wanted me to know. I appreciated that.
Of course, that made me go back through all my chicks - both from that hatch and from earlier and later hatches - to see if I had any other cross-beaks that I had missed. Not a one. I haven't been contacted by any other buyers about cross beak and I have about 100 chicks that I've kept for myself - no cross beak anywhere.
Fast forward a couple of weeks and this same person wrote to tell me another chick has developed cross beak. I immediately refunded her for two chicks.
I have chicks that came out of that same hatch and are the same age and I have older chicks from earlier hatches, as well as younger chicks from hatches since and I still don't see a single cross beak.
Everything I've read about cross-beak seems to point to genetics, with some possibility of temperature spikes causing cross-beak. But, in either case (temperature or genetics), with over 100 chicks here, plus the other 400 I've hatched and sold - wouldn't I be seeing it more?
Thankfully, those chicks were marked and they both come from the same pen, so I can eliminate the possibilities of where it is coming from, if genetic.
Have any of you had this happen or can offer insight as to possible causes, solutions?
DeWayne Edgin:
I was told by a breeder that it was genetics. A different breeder told me it was from temps. Yet another totally different breeder told me it was from the chick having trouble hatching and it caused their beak to form like that. So i guess i don`t know lol.
My guess is that it could be a mixture of these things. But.. this thread got me thinking on this more. Maybe since your chicks that was shipped got this and the ones you kept, could maybe be because the chicks still have a soft beak from just hatching and they pecked the box looking for food and caused damage. I don`t know but it can be reason i guess. But if you shipped out a lot to others and they didn`t get it, then that theroy is probably no good lol. Was the state you shipped to warmer or a lot colder that SC? Maybe even the feed the lady fed wasn`t mixed up like it should. I asked many people this question before and i never got the same answer so i don`t think it was ever proven. Maybe i can call Penn State here in PA and get a new theroy lol. I have their number and was fixing on calling the one lady there about a problem with my Brown Red rooster anyway. ;)
Susan Mouw:
Yep, I've gotten the same kind of response and even researching it on the internet has not led to a definite conclusion.
I doubt it was soft beaks, though. My hatch date is Monday, but I ship on Tuesday. Most of my chicks are usually hatched out by Monday morning, so their beaks should be pretty solid by Tuesday afternoon. And, like you said, if it were that, it seems I would have had it happen on other shipments. Plus, I ship a cup of gelatin mixed with chick feed in a cup taped to one end (opposite end of the heat pack), so they have food and moisture for the trip.
The suspected hen is being culled, anyway - for other reasons, as is that cockbird, but I'd sure like to know more. If you're going to call PA anyway - would you mind asking about it?
Thanks
Don:
I know that the answers are not so definitive, such is life. I have always thought that it was an incubator issue. But it is strange when they develop more as they grow out in the pens. But if it is definitely a result of a certain mating, it means to me that the genes of that pair are more prone to have that weakness. I think you are right to separate that pair and cull whatever other traits you may see needed. But how many of the clutch mates are doing well from that pairing? That is what is hard to understand.
Susan Mouw:
--- Quote from: Don on May 18, 2016, 09:01:09 AM ---I know that the answers are not so definitive, such is life. I have always thought that it was an incubator issue. But it is strange when they develop more as they grow out in the pens. But if it is definitely a result of a certain mating, it means to me that the genes of that pair are more prone to have that weakness. I think you are right to separate that pair and cull whatever other traits you may see needed. But how many of the clutch mates are doing well from that pairing? That is what is hard to understand.
--- End quote ---
Well, I hatched a total of 65 birds from that pen - two hens and one rooster, and so far, these two are the only ones I know about that have cross-beak. I have about 20 of those 65 here and none of those have it. Both of those would have come from the same hen, as I was able to distinguish which hen was laying which egg in that pen and I wasn't shipping chicks from the other hen, due to some unsatisfactory color issues.
Let's just say that pen has been a disappointment for this year. Thankfully, the chicks from my other wheaten pen look good.
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