Author Topic: Leakage  (Read 7780 times)

Mary Scuderi

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Leakage
« on: July 27, 2016, 01:14:22 PM »
I have BBS. My chickens are 4 months old now and a couple of my roosters just started showing leakage on their hackles.  One is black and the other is blue and both have a deep gold color on tips of hackles that just popped up. How common is this from supposed purebreds? I am so disappointed. I may not have a decent rooster to breed. I do still have one blue roo but he was not my best until now.

Birdcrazy

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 05:01:19 PM »
Mary, I had much the same problem several years ago with young cockerels as high as 10-15% showing this issue for about 2-3 years. During this time I did not use any of the cockerels for breeders but I did continue to use some of the original cocks for breeders that did not have leakage. I kept records on which chicks in successive years continued to produce leakers. If the offspring showed leakage, the old cocks were soup. I finally narrowed it down to some chicks hatched from eggs that I bought on the internet. Since then I have bought chicks 3-4 times from reputable ABC members. During this time I did not do any culling on hens and pullets if their conformation was good as long as there was no leakage. Of course leakage on pullets was not as prominent as in the cockerels. I know yes that some of the pullets probably carried this trait as did some of the older cocks that were used previously and had offspring that showed occasional leakage. Since doing this, I have not had any chicks with leakage for the past 3 years. I have found out that keeping good records and banding chicks helps not only in this instance but other areas such as combs, egg color, spur issues etc. I hope this helps, it did in my case. Good luck on your hatches.
Gordon Gilliam

Mary Scuderi

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 06:04:31 PM »
Thank you for your response. I did send an email to the breeder to let him know of the situation since he is a member as well.

Don

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 08:22:00 PM »
Mary,  I am sorry that you have had the leakage issue with the Blues and Blacks.  As Gordon mentioned, I don't think it is as isolated as some might suggest.  The leakage can be the result of the birds not having quite enough melanizers to cover up the base colors, in your case Gold base color.  The females carry this issue but don't normally present the problem, only their male offspring.  Its not really an issue of them being pure bred or not.  But it can be complicated by crossing different lines of AMs.  Some carry different genes to complete the color either Blue or Black.  The breeder might be able to give you some background on the make up of the origins of your stock. As Gordon mentioned keeping good records is the best start.  That way you will know which parents are suspect when mated together and you can change these matings for next year as well.  Good luck on the youngsters as they grow out.  And please Feel free to ask additional questions if we can help. 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 09:28:50 PM by Don »
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Mary Scuderi

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 05:21:52 PM »
So they are now considered EE's right?

Don

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 05:32:42 PM »
Mary,   I wouldn't automatically discount them to EEs if they are out of a viable line of Ameraucanas.  Breeding pens can run into problems such as leakage or egg color and still be workable to turn around and correct.  It is great to know more about the parents if the breeder can help you there.  But I am not sure its a total loss if you are getting some good colored birds out of the rest of the grow outs.  Its just something that you have to consider as you put matings together for the next season.   
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Mary Scuderi

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 09:34:17 PM »
Thanks Don. I appreciate the information.

Mary

Paul

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 09:37:52 AM »
  When we first started breeding Ameraucanas, seventeen years ago, a large majority of the black and blue cockerels would have extra gold or silver in their hackles and/or saddles by the time they were butcher size (about 5 months).  They are very good to eat!  Only a few cockerels would be free of any extra color (leakage).  The breeders would be selected from the ones that didn't have any leakage.  Several years of repeatedly breeding for clean hackles and the opposite appeared!  The large majority of males were clean and only a few had leakage but it would still occur in some.  We went 5 years without adding any new breeders, then purchased five cockerels.  Unfortunately the leakage problem has increased with their addition.  I've been told both "using a black cockerel out of a pair of blues doesn't matter, because if you can't see the blue-it isn't there," and by someone else "don't use a black cockerel out of a pair of blues because he will mask (hide) leakage modifiers.  The past five years breeding experience-I'm heavily leaning to the theory of not using a black cockerel out of a pair of blues.  it may take another 17 years to definitely confirm that concept.

  Don't throw out the baby with the bath water-keep the black cockerels with either no leakage or at least the ones with the least amount, if you don't have any that are well built without any leakage.

  Best wishes, don't give up, breeding show birds isn't always easy.
Paul Smith

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 01:34:55 PM »
  Best wishes, don't give up, breeding show birds isn't always easy.

But Paul, that's part of the fun! Or should I say challenge!
Gordon Gilliam

Don

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Re: Leakage
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2016, 02:47:46 PM »
Mary, I sent you an email.   I am glad that Paul was able to join in.  He probably produces more Blacks and Blues than most, so his experience is great context for these varieties. In the past many folks mated Black/Blue/Splash together freely based on type and trying to maximize one color or the other.  There has been a movement in the last years to separate matings of Blacks and Blues for several reasons.  There are threads here that discuss some of the reasons and include several folks suggestions/thoughts.  One thought is that the Best Blacks are based on Gold and the Best Blues based on Silver color.  Another thought by a few breeders is that the Best Blacks are based on EE (extended Black) and blues are based on E^r, (or birchen).  There are a lot of genes that can be disrupted when lines are crossed and problems can pop up for a few generations.  Its one reason to try to stay within a family of birds when you have to go out for new brood stock.  Whatever the breeder can provide you on background will be helpful later.  A lot of the underlying genes are not easy to know for sure.  But breeders might have some understanding based on their chick colors, sheen, etc.  The more info you have will help with your continued matings and new stock down the road as well.    Below is one of the previous Blue and Black discussions. 

 http://ameraucanabreedersclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,2736.15.html 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 03:00:21 PM by Don »
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