A Couple of Breeding Questions

[Peggy Taylor]

I have two questions that I would like some input on....

1.If a Silver cockerel (Bantam in this case) is crossed to Black females what are you looking at in getting the resulting chicks back to the Silver standard and what direction should this take ? Breed the chicks back to the Silver sire ?  How many generations ? I've never cross bred outside the color variety but know others have. So your experience would be appreciated.

2. The one major problem I see in the Bantam Ameraucanas...especially the males...is their wing carriage is too low.  The Bantam SOP is clear about what it should be and from that we have lots of work to do. I have decided to make a real effort to correct this if possible in my flock. I see pictures from the UK and elsewhere that show birds with excellent correct wing carriage so I know its possible.

In looking at this situation I am trying to formulate a breeding plan to work on this particular problem. I would look for a cock that was right if there were enough Bantams available to produce such a bird.  But even finding bantams is like looking for a needle in the haystack let alone finding one that truly meets the SOP in this area. Plus if I had such a bird I certainly would not let him go!

So, I will try to follow the plan laid out by Ralph Sturgeon in his book "Start From Where You Are With What You Have".  My preliminary thought is this....I will take my very best male in type and cross him with the two or three females that have the tightest wing carriage. (I have a cockerel that is better than the others in this area and one or two hens that are much better than the other hens with their wing carriage)..Select out of those chicks for the tightest wing carriage and repeat the process.  Goal being to come up with a cockerel that has the "correct" wing carriage....hopefully some hens as well. Somewhere about the third generation I should see some results if the process is following the right direction....

So, I would very much appreciate thoughts on the breeding direction that might be necessary (in either question 1 or 2).  Thanks.

Peggy Taylor

[Don]

Peggy,  I know that several have mated Silver to Black in past years.  Some of this was to gain traits from the blacks, increase size of LF and try to melanize the shafting in the silver females.  I know that Jean did this in the LF so hopefully she can tell you what experiences she had and how long it took to get back to a silver color in both sexes.   

I think that wing carriage in problematic in bantam males of many breeds.  And in many breeds the females carry their wings much higher more toward their standard.  And the wing carriage per the standards for AMs is different than most breed standards.  The wording is different from the ABA "above the lower thigh" and the APA "above the hock joint".  And this indicates a lower wing carriage than for Plymouth rocks and some of the other breeds.  Selection is the right approach to change the trait.  And it might take some time to get them where you prefer.  I would think you could slowly accomplish improved wing carriage without going to another variety. 

[Peggy Taylor]

Thanks Don for taking the time to respond to my questions.  I do appreciate it.  I've been doing a lot of reading on how the OEG breeders bred the Silver Duckwing Pattern.  I think a double mating system with the Silvers may be necessary to get them to where I would like them for myself. However that idea kinda gets shot in the foot due to the apparent lack of breeding stock available from which to choose breeders. I've been looking a long time to get the pair I just found but I very badly need another trio.

I wouldn't cross outside the breed to work on wing carriage.  I think it can be improved by careful selection and breeding with what I have.. And your right, it will take some time. I haven't seen a male yet that truly meets either definition of the standard but I do have a chocolate cockerel that might come close.  I'm going to use him with a couple of the tightest wing Black females I can locate and see where that gets me.

Maybe I will have a chance to discuss that Silver/Black thing with Jean. 

Oh well...this isn't the first road block I've run into and I'm sure it won't be the last.....