Ameraucana Breeder's Club Ameraucana Breeders Club FaceBook Page Ameraucana Breeders Club

Author Topic: Leakage - Keep or Cull?  (Read 412 times)

Temple DaSilva

  • ABC Members
  • Associate
  • *
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
    • Green Falls Hollow
Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« on: February 27, 2017, 02:34:23 PM »
I wanted to ask the group if having a cockerel with leakage is an absolute deal breaker for breeding or not.  Of course, one of my typey-est bantam black cockerels has gold leakage.  He has lots of other positive attributes so I wasn't sure if the leakage was a lesser-of-the-evils kind of thing or if I should just pass on him having any value at all to a breeding program.

I'm looking forward to hearing opinions on how to rank the leakage against other faults like poor combs, crow-headedness, and even nasty temperaments.

Thanks,
-temple in CT

Don

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
    • View Profile
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2017, 03:26:21 PM »
How much leakage, do you have any pictures?  Do you have any other good males to switch out in this one's place?   
Don Cash
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..."   Mark Twain

Susan Mouw

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1182
    • View Profile
    • Sand Castles Farm
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2017, 05:00:43 PM »
Well, my own rule of thumb is type first, color second.  So, if he has the type, then it comes down to how much leakage is too much. Obviously no leakage is best, but sometimes we have to deal with what we have.

Like Don said - post some pics and let's see what we're dealing with here. :)
Susan Mouw
Sand Castles Farm
http://www.sandcastlesfarm.com

Ravynscroft

  • ABC Members
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2017, 02:00:28 AM »
Agree, pics say it best... :)

If he's all you have to work with, OR you have the capacity and capability to set up a separate pen for him, then I would try him out if there's a heavier weight of pros than cons in him... I would aim for producing another cockerel comparable to him as close as possible but without leakage to replace him with... and I would either mark every pullet from him to test breed for leakage once they grow out, or cull them since they'll hide the leakage if they inherit it...

I dealt with leakage before in my Am's and actually ended up pulling out a nice cockerel for a friend from that line... so it *can* be worked with/around/out, just depends on if what he brings in positives is worth the time, effort and headaches, lol...
Jen Mitchell

I'd rather have the hard truth than an easy lie.

Temple DaSilva

  • ABC Members
  • Associate
  • *
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
    • Green Falls Hollow
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2017, 08:15:45 AM »
Thanks for the quick response, everyone.  I'll post some photos in a couple of days (when I have some light in the afternoon) to poll the group on the amount of leakage he has. 

It is good to know that leakage shouldn't be an immediate decision to cull.  I do have plenty of other blacks with no leakage but just a few things about this guy keep calling me back.  And I do have enough space to segregate.  I was thinking that if I did use him, only keeping cockerels might be the way to go since I wouldn't be able to see it in any pullets he produced.  Or does leakage have a tendency to skip generations, meaning that a clean F1 male from him could produce leakage (assuming he wasn't bred to a female who was hiding it)?

Thanks again!

-temple

Ravynscroft

  • ABC Members
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 03:08:22 AM »
Temple, I don't believe it hides like that in males... I could be wrong, so I'd wait for more experienced opinions... but when I asked for a definitive answer when I was fighting leakage, I was told if he doesn't show it, then he doesn't carry it... be aware, though, I have seen leakage crop up quite later than expected,  not much buf it was there in a feather or 2... but the one clean male I managed to pull out, I used him for 2 generations without it cropping up... so take that for what It's worth... :)
Jen Mitchell

I'd rather have the hard truth than an easy lie.

Temple DaSilva

  • ABC Members
  • Associate
  • *
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
    • Green Falls Hollow
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 10:57:19 AM »
Agree, pics say it best... :)

Here are a few pics I grabbed of the black bantam cockerel I have with the offending leakage.  I'll attach them as single pics/post so as not to have to reduce the file size too much.  This first one is a headshot from the front.  There is no leakage lower but I wanted to show one of the things I like about this guy.

Thanks again for any advice, guidance, commentary and/or critiques!

-temple

Temple DaSilva

  • ABC Members
  • Associate
  • *
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
    • Green Falls Hollow
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 10:58:40 AM »
And another of this same black cockerel but showing the gold leakage in his hackles.  He has none in his saddle feathers.

-temple
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 11:56:56 AM by Temple DaSilva »

Temple DaSilva

  • ABC Members
  • Associate
  • *
  • Posts: 133
    • View Profile
    • Green Falls Hollow
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 11:58:22 AM »
... and lastly, the dreaded leakage picture.

-temple

Don

  • Administrator
  • Ameraucana Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
    • View Profile
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2017, 08:10:32 AM »
Temple,  Leakage can crop up in any mating especially if or when you cross lines.  Lines can be built on different genetic backgrounds and when they are mixed the melanizers are not able to completely cover the base coloring.  the leakage he is displaying may very well be hidden but carried by his sisters, so just keep an eye on the offspring from these too.   You can test mate him if you think he has so many other qualities.  Keep track of all of the offspring so you will know which pullets are suspect.  And if you have room also use your next best male without leakage and keep track to see what you have at with this mating too.  It may take raising a larger number of youngsters and culling heavily once they reach adult feathering.   I hope you have some great offspring this fall.       
Don Cash
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness..."   Mark Twain

HarryS

  • ABC Members
  • Associate
  • *
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2017, 11:29:33 AM »
Sometimes you can cull the day olds by coloring they express on blacks, blues and maybe splashes.
Harry Shaffer

Ravynscroft

  • ABC Members
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Leakage - Keep or Cull?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2017, 10:59:55 PM »
Sometimes you can cull the day olds by coloring they express on blacks, blues and maybe splashes.

Would you elaborate on this, please, Harry???
Jen Mitchell

I'd rather have the hard truth than an easy lie.