Author Topic: How people learn from what they see  (Read 4217 times)

Ernie Haire

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How people learn from what they see
« on: December 07, 2017, 08:24:45 PM »
I had the opportunity to visit with a judge that I respect this weekend. He was not judging the show, but is  interested in the Ameraucana breed and the way that it seems to be gaining in popularity. He said that for years, he would see a handful of Ameraucanas at the shows. One or two of some different varieties. It was not hard to select the Best and Reserve Best of Variety based on faults and disqualifications. After that, select the Best and Reserve Best of Breed, no problem. To learn more about them, he paid attention to the birds that won Best and Reserve Best of Breed and Champion AOSB and/or Champion AOCCL under other judges. He thought that if judges who had experience with the breed selected them, he should pattern his selections after what he had seen previously.

He admitted that he had no idea what the Standard weights for Ameraucanas should be. After checking his APA Standard of Perfection, he looked at me with amazement in his eyes and said, "a cock bird should only weigh 6.5 pounds." I said, "I know."  He laughed and said, "judges can't weigh every bird, but to put it into perspective an Ameraucana cock bird should weigh the same as one of your Marans hens." Again, I smiled and said, "I know."

He mentioned the way some varieties are nice and flat down the back and across the top.  He also mentioned that some of the Ameraucana males seemed to be higher in the front than in the rear. I just smiled and said, "check your Standard."

Believe it or not, we are still friends.

Just Saying,
Ernie

Lindsay Helton

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Re: How people learn from what they see
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 09:32:10 PM »
It is always interesting to me to see the selections that the judges make for BV, RB, and BB. I have gradually started to notice the preferences of different judges as I show more and more. One thought has come to my mind frequently lately...should I bring the birds that most closely adhere to the standard, or that a judge is more likely to select as BB or RB? Lol. The answer, of course, is to bring birds that most closely adhere to the standard. Unfortunately it seems that the bigger or more flashy birds are occasionally being selected for top honors at varying shows. Not always, but often. I’ll use my own self as an example.

A few weeks ago, at a certain show, a pullet that I carried received Reserve Champion Large Fowl. Out of the dozen or so birds that I carried, I did not think that it should have received that award. It was my least favorite bird of the dozen I carried. It had too much fluff and was over sized, but it was the best I had to work with, and I wanted to represent the variety at the show, so I brought it anyway.

The standard is very specific in some ways, and in other ways it lends the opportunity to implement our own interpretation of the standard, especially when selecting breeders and setting goals for our breeding programs. That’s what makes it fun!

When I attend shows, I am very objective and do not become emotionally involved in how my birds do. It’s nice to receive verification or affirmation of my breeding programs from a licensed judge, but as a whole, their selections do not dramatically affect my breeding program. I attend shows 5-10 days of the year. The other 355 days I’m at home enjoying my birds. What’s important to me as a breeder may not be important to a judge. I love a tight pea comb and a good head and am breeding for it in my program. A few weeks ago, a judge I showed under could care less about the heads and the size of the pea combs on the birds. Does that mean I’m going to stop focusing on the heads and tight pea combs? No, because it’s important to me. Lol I know certain things are worth more or less on the point system when judging.

I spend endless hours studying the Ameraucana breed and the underlying genetics, and to me personally, I’d rather have the input and feedback of 1-2 Ameraucana breeders that I consult with frequently, and that I genuinely value and appreciate feedback from, than a few trophies on the mantle. Okay, so the trophies are nice too. Lol I do think the judges are doing the best that they can, and there are a few judges out there that know Ameraucanas inside and out. Hopefully the birds that are selected as BB and further at the different shows are also the ones that most closely adhere to the standard. They should be.

Good luck to everyone at all the remaining shows this year!!! I wish each and every one of you the best of luck. I’m proud of the attention that Ameraucanas are getting!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 10:03:36 PM by Lindsay Helton »
Joshua 24:15

Peggy Taylor

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Re: How people learn from what they see
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 12:51:26 PM »
Excellent posts by both Ernie and Lindsay....

I try very hard not to be "barn blind" about my own birds. I am especially hard on males as they influence the whole breeding program. I might cut a female a little slack but not a male.  I am in agreement with LIndsay about that tight pea comb...its important to me. I see too many males with combs that are just "ugly". I dont let one judge's opinion on that day cause me to change my whole program and I have never been one to chase after the newest fad of anything....

There are some judges out there whose opinions I value highly.  I have no problem asking one of them what it was about my bird that did not suit them that day. Most of the time what they have to say is very constructive.  I appreciate a judge who has his copy of the standard in front of him ...especially with a breed he may not be real familiar with....and is not afraid to consult it.  To me it means he takes pride in trying to do a good job.

It's a learning experience every day. But I love my Bantam Ameraucanas !!!

Peggy


Maggie Maier

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Re: How people learn from what they see
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 03:50:03 AM »
So how do we get this discussion out in front of the judges instead of just within our membership?
Maggie Maier

Susan Mouw

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Re: How people learn from what they see
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 08:58:47 AM »
So how do we get this discussion out in front of the judges instead of just within our membership?

Excellent Question!  Do we, as the ABC, need to start some sort of "Continuing Education" program for judges, as well as breeders and wanna be fanciers?
Susan Mouw
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Ernie Haire

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Re: How people learn from what they see
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 09:41:20 AM »
I take every opportunity that I get to share with everyone.  Even the judges can't  help but comment on how popular Ameraucanas are getting. Usually it is one or two of the judges that did not judge the AOSB or AOCCL classes that day. They seem to just drop by to look at the birds and talk about the breed. They seem to be interested in the breed and eager to learn more about them. It seems that there are quite a few judges out there who haven't been faced with judging large classes of Ameraucanas.

Maybe it is the teacher in me, but I enjoy people. I can and will discuss any of the breeds of poultry that I have with anyone. I will point out what I like and don't like about any of my own birds. I work hard breeding, but still have not hatched or raised "perfect". There is no reason to feel like my discussion is going to fall short on facts, because I keep my APA Standard of Perfection handy. My description of the breed is not based on personal preference, it is based on written standards. Other breeders, exhibitors, passer-byers, and judges can't argue with facts. I do not know everything, but I know where to find most things.

When judges ask me why I seem to have turned my focus to Bantams. I tell them that since LF Ameraucanas are starting to become oversized according to the APA Breed Standards, I am getting too old to pick them up and handle them. I also them "jokingly" that if the judges ever start judging Ameraucanas by the APA Standards, I should have a great market for Bantam males. The only was that I can see to reverse the current size of some LF Ameraucanas is to breed them to Bantams.

I know that at one time, the Marans Chicken Club USA had the Standards printed and laminated hanging on the ends of the Marans isles. This was for the passer-byers and the judges because the breed was so new to the APA.

Be Blessed,
Ernie