Weird Eyes

[Guest]

Okay, I do not know where else to mention this, but, wanted to know if anyone else has had this problem.
Someone else that raises Ameraucanas has had to have seen this before as I cannot be the only one.
I have gotten birds from two different people from the club. In both instances, I have noticed eye problems. Well, I did not notice the problem till it was pointed out to me at a show by a judge. The judge told me the birds had Leukosis and that they would eventually go blind. Now, that was with my first birds. I then probably about a year later, got two more shipped in. Before I even got them home, I looked at the girls eyes. Theirs are the same way. Now, at that point I am thinking, its nothing.
I have looked up Leukosis, and it says that it is a form of Mareks and about some mortality, and a graying of the eye. The judge that had seen it said that it was a genetic thing and the birds would eventually go blind.
Well okay, so now I am confused. None of my birds are blind (some are 2-3 years old), they can all see things fine but the pupil in the eye appears to have leaked out from its normal shape. (for lack of a better term). I have had no deaths, and it has never affected any other birds, just these Ameraucanas.
I have no one around here to ask about this really. The state vets when I mention it really do not know and were not really concerned about it.
It could be that this is common in Ameruacanas and just no one pays enough attention to the eyes to realize it? Like I said, two different gene pools and the same thing. Someone else has to have noticed this? Also, I do vaccinate every chick for Mareks disease at day old and all the young are like this too. I must have 80 birds and only 10 of which are Ameraucanas and they are the only ones effected.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to treat maybe or something or if its something I cannot do anything about?

[Mike Gilbert]

I have not raised many silver large fowl recently, and only have a trio now for next year.   I\'ll check mine when I get a chance and report back.   But I had the same experience with large fowl Dark Brahmas many years ago.   It came in on a cockerel I had purchased from a top breeder, it was ocular and he went blind by the time he was mature.  
From that point on I have found it beneficial to vaccinate for Mareks.   This year I am raising a couple of batches of chicks under hens without vaccinating - to see if is still necessary.
So far, so good, but these chicks are still quite young.

[Jean]

It sounds like ocular mareks disease.  You can look it up on the internet for all the particulars or talk to Peter Brown at First State Vet Supply about it.

The Mareks vaccine will not cover it.  In fact the Mareks vaccine does not always prevent the disease.  There are several types of mareks disease and the only vaccine made is for the type that causes the muscle problems (splayed legs) and mostly affects broilers.

I would get a blood sample from the birds and send it to a lab for testing.  I had this two years ago and eradicated it by culling and thoroughly vacumming all dander and disinfecting the coop that it was in.

Jean

PS I would refrain from showing these/this bird again as this is an infectious disease.  Mareks is spread through the feather dander and if a chicken flaps its wings or ruffles and shakes you have dander everywhere.  I am also surprised you were not asked to remove your bird from the show.

[Guest]

So then why is it then that no other birds or breeds in all my pens have ever gotten it and I have had them for at least two years?? The judge told me it was genetic, non contagious, and the State vets office like I said was unconcerned. The next time I talk to the state vets at CSU I will have them draw some blood for testing.
I have posted to Peter Brown to see his thoughts on it. I read that if it was not Mareks it would clear up with antibiotic eye drops, so am trying that on one of the birds.

I tell you though, if this is the case, and it is Mareks, I am done with the large fowl. I mean, this is why I bought birds from the best breeders and I cant show or breed them now. It was a huge waste of money and time. If I sound a bit upset, I apologize, but this breed was really something I enjoyed working with. I am going to e-mail the vet now to see what can be done as far as testing.

[Mike Gilbert]

All I can say is that my flock never had the muscular form of Mareks until the ocular form was introduced.   I have had no birds go blind since, and I do vaccinate.   It is a known fact that some strains of birds are more susceptible than others, and that the Marek\'s organism is very widespread.   IMHO anyone who expects to show and intermingle birds and not ever have any problems is being unrealistic.   I have not been in this hobby for close to 40 years by giving up each time a problem is encountered.

[Guest]

So Mike, if you were me, what would you do? I would have to say that maybe these Ameraucanas are more suseptible to the Ocular Mareks than some others, just as my Dutch are more prone to the regular Mareks, but, that is controlled by the vaccine and I havent had a bird go down from it for years.. These have all been vaccinated, but, I guess it has no effect on this form.
What does the picture look like to you guys? They are not grey at all, its just, well, I am not sure.

Sorry, I thought I had a picture posted:



The white spots you see are a glare from the camera. His eyes have NO grey or white areas at all.

[Guest]

Q.: at what age do the symptoms appear in adult birds if infected at hatch?
One positive thing to think about is that at present, all your birds have been exposed and if they are not showing symptoms are obviously resistant. What other Ameraucana varieties do you have?

Is it the opacity towards his beak?

[Guest]

I have some birds that are about 5 months old and they have the eyes the same way. I did not really look at them before that. I have ONE hen that has good eyes. Unfortunetely, she has bumblefoot so am trying to treat her with antibiotics as per a recommendation I saw posted by Peter Brown that if it was not hard as a rock to the touch, surgery wouldnt be necessary at this time.
This is the only variety I have is Black Large Fowl.

What the judge was referring to when he looked at the bird is the part of his eye that should be the reddish bay area (the iris) the pupil, seems to have leaked over into the Iris and has darkened it.
It just does NOT look like the pictures I have seen of Ocular Mareks so I find it difficult to believe. Maybe it truly is nothing. But I cannot deny that his eyes are not as they should be. I could certaily take pictures of all of them that have it if needed. It really seems like something genetic, seeing I have no other birds affected. I just dont know what to think about it or what I should do.

[Mike Gilbert]

From what I can see, it does not resemble the eyes of the Dark Brahmas I had with ocular leukosis at all.   I\'m not sure the judge knew what he was talking about, which unfortunately is not all that uncommon.   Add that to the fact that you have had no birds go blind.   Mine was completely blind by the time he was 7 or 8 months old.    IMHO, you are dealing with something that is not all that serious, and you should be able to breed yourself out of the situation by securing and using breeders with well colored eyes.   Good luck!   I should say that I had thought you were talking about the silver variety, because of your e-mail handle.   I  have to be more careful about making assumptions.

[Guest]

Well, thank you, that is good to know that it is NOT like what you had seen in other birds. When the judge had told me that last year, I thought he was crazy but, I am not a judge so, well, dont know. I just knew none of the birds have any kind of vision problems at all. One of the older ones is kinda stupid and runs into stuff, but thats not because he cannot see LOL.

So you don\'t think it is anything contagious do you?

I am on the search for a cockerel and some pullets that have good eyes. I LOVE these birds they are gorgeous but this is something I need to do something about.

I am still having the vet come out and test them for Mareks though just in case. They came out and did the AI and Pullorum testing in July, I just wish I would have thought to have them do the blood test for Mareks as well then.

[Anne Foley]

I think that we may be talking about two different things.  Ocular Marek\'s is an unmistakable gray cloudiness in the entire eye.  What you have in an indistinct pupil. I also have that in some of my LF Ameraucanas.  This problem does not have anything to do with eyesight or sickness.  I hope to slowly remove this problem with careful breeding.  It is not going to be my number one culling criteria but it is on the table for consideration when I cull.  Ameraucanas are a relatively new breed and anyone breeding them has to keep in mind that they are not as perfected as some other breeds.

[Guest]

Anne, Really? You have seen this too huh? I have only one bird without it, but hopeing that I can concentrate on them next year instead of some bantam breeds I raise to try to get some with good eyes. Of course, it would be helpful to find some new breeders without this issue. I am currently looking.

[Anne Foley]

I have a few with nice eyes but they are not full grown yet and may not be good specimens in any other way.  I am concentrating on good shape, prominent muff, proper foot bottoms, nice straight legs, and a respectable pea comb.  It is possible that one good cockerel in your breeding program may solve the eye problem in a year.  I am not sure.  It depends on the genetics involved.

[Jean]

I just replied to your other message.   I do not believe this is ocular mareks as I look at your photo and again I apologize for assuming that the judge who told you this was leukosis was correct.

This is just the way the iris is colored in that particular bird IMO.

Also I just remembered that if you vaccinate I believe a blood test will show positive for Mareks since you inject them with it.

Jean

[Guest]

I would like to say that it seems a number of people have gotten birds with this problem. I am amazed as I thought I was the only one! I am relieved though it doesnt appear to be Mareks as some have reported the chicks born with it.

Anyway, I am aware that with every breed in the world, there are always genes and things that crop up from time to time in our flock we are not expecting.

However, I wish that in the future, all breeders (myself included) include this eye issue in the list of things to cull out when we are evaluating our flock, so that maybe eventually, we will all have Ameruacanas with stunningly beautiful eyes to match the rest of their bodies!!!
As I have had happen first hand, some judges will comment on the problem and while some do not look at eye color as closely as they should, I think anyone who sees this would realize its not right. It truly brings me to disappointment when I have been breeding for 3 years only to now only have one bird worthy of keeping as the rest, seeing they show the problem will likely all pass this on to their offspring.