Lavender or Self Blue

[Guest]

What\'s the difference between Lavender and Self Blue?  I thought they were exactly the same, a dilute of black?  Somewhere-couldn\'t find where-someone specifically stated they had Lavenders and not Self Blues.  Just a newbie (to Ameraucanas) looking for clarification.  Thanks.

[HarryS]

Self blue AKA Lavender.

[Mike Gilbert]

Even shade of blue without lacing also AKA self blue.   At least I have heard it described that way.

[John]

What\'s the difference between Lavender and Self Blue?

They are just different names for the same variety.  The gene that is responsible is called \"lavender\" and so many of us prefer that term.
The APA officially calls the lavender varieties of some breeds like d\'Anver and Old English \"self blue\".
On page 202 of Jeffrey\'s BANTAM CHICKENS he lists about 11 other names for self blue (AKA lavender).

[Guest]

That is what I thought, I must have misunderstood the post.  In it, I thought they were saying that blue (as in Andalusian blue) without lacing was self blue, and lavender was the acutal dilute.  I think I understand that what it was really saying was the people were showing Lavenders as \"light\" colored Blues.  Whew, that took a while to say...

[John]

blue (as in Andalusian blue) without lacing was self blue

I think you were right and that Mike is saying that he also calls \"blue\" without the proper lacing self blue.  I haven\'t heard it used that way before and think it could add to confusion since \"self blue\" is used to define some varieties that have the lavender gene by the APA.
I\'m sure Mike will explain further...

[Mike Gilbert]

Maybe this is a regional thing, but I have heard self blue used to describe an even shade of blue caused by Bl (not lav) for about the past 30 or so years.

[Guest]

I thought self blue (lavenders) came from the fact that they breed true.  Self blue X self blue = 100% self blue. Unlike the BL gene were you get black, blue and splash.  They may consider that to breed true since you do get 50% blue.  You get the same percent of blues breeding black to blue.

[Mike Gilbert]

I believe all of us in this discussion are well aware of how the genetics of Bl and lav work.   The term \"self blue\" has been used to describe both types;   that is why we are calling the lav/lav birds \"lavender\" instead of self blue - to avoid confusion.  Quoting from Jeffrey in his work Bantam Chickens, page 202 talking about the lavender birds, \"Self blue is true breeding but not all shown in this class meet this qualification.\"   Clearly there has been confusion between light blue (Bl) birds and lavenders, and the term self blue has been used interchangeably among those who raise and show.
So lets keep using the term lavender instead of self blue.

[Anne Foley]

I think lavender is a good term except that it is a commonly used word in the English language to describe a shade of purple.  You will regularly be answering questions about this from beginners and breeders of other birds.  How about Blue Lav?

[John]

How about Blue Lav?

I think that by putting the word \"blue\" in the title it goes back to adding more confusion.  Since the gene is called lavender that produces the color I would want to stick with it to describe the variety.  I know that the color may look more gray than lavender, but look at some of the other names of varieties that really don\'t seem to fit yet we live with them (i.e. blue [gray], silver [black & white] and brown red [black & orange]).  
The one that I have the biggest problem with is the name of the gene that produces splash.  How can a bird that is pure for blue (Bl/Bl) be splash?  The gene should be called \"Splash\" that produces splash.   But, that\'s another subject.

[Guest]

How can a bird that is pure for blue (Bl/Bl) be splash?  The gene should be called \"Splash\" that produces splash.   But, that\'s another subject.

I think that is an excellent point.  We should take a vote  B)

And thank you all for clearing that up, I hadn\'t heard it used that way is all.  Lavender is a fine description for self blue-two genes called blue gets a bit wearing.  I have noticed you guys are a more technical than some of the other groups I\'m subscribed to.  And you all know your genetics, so I\'m looking forward to getting lots more advice on my future projects.  

[John]

We should take a vote  

That would be nice, but we can\'t change the text books.

[Guest]

I was just kidding, but I guess it didn\'t come through in text.  

[Guest]

My understanding of the term \"self\" refers to one color. Like self black, self blue, self white etc.  I think different countries and different regions have placed different meanings on the word self.

Tim