Lacing in Blues

[Mike Gilbert]

p.s.   - I will have to respectfully disagree with John on the above blue pullet.   I see edging, not lacing.   And I have never seen true lacing in a large fowl blue Ameraucana - yet.
Again, someone needs to take the initiative to introduce pattern gene to the large fowl blues.   I prefer to work with the bantams, especially with the way feed prices are going lately.

[John]

Mike,
I don\'t think you are disagreeing with me.  I said I don\'t know if it is lacing or edging, but I like the contrast between the body of the feathers and the \"edges\".  I\'ve seen better contrast, but also much worse over the years.

I do believe that both Mike and Jean are on something.  We have tried to breed blacks and blues based on Extended Black at the E-locus.  Some say you can\'t get good lacing on Extended Black birds.  Maybe breeding blues to blues that are based on \"Birchen\" (silver not gold) instead of Extended Black is the way to go.
http://home.ezweb.com.au/~kazballea/genetics/mutations1.html#gen_mut_elocus

Laced Blue
(Blue Andalusian)
 ER Bl/bl+ Pg Ml (Co)
+ eumelanin extenders

I don\'t like the % of culls from breeding blue to blue to get really good ones and will give up breeding blues and blue wheatens.

[Guest]

With the experimentation I did with lacing on extended black the best I could get was edging. I believe it is something about the extended back gene that is causing the edging. The work by Campo and  Carefoot indicated that andalusian are extended black. Carefoot concluded that andalusian are E,Bl, Co and Pg while Campo concluded that Co was not needed for the lacing. My work agreed with Campo. It does not make any difference if a bird is columbian restricted or not.  Some andalusian undoubtedly do carry birchen but I can not say for sure my birds carried the gene.

I believe if one could establish a birchen or brown line they would get true lacing. Wyandottes are brown so I know good lacing can be established on brown. I know that lacing can be produced on  birchen because polish and sebright are birchen based birds. The next step in my work was to produce lacing on birchen and brown in ameraucana. I just do not have the room to expand my projects. I hope to buy a small farm soon and then I can do many different projects.

Tim

[John]

produce lacing on birchen and brown in ameraucana

Yes, brown (partridge) (e^b) produces good single lacing also, but birchen (E^R) is already available in the Ameraucana breed by using brown reds.  Maybe it would be worth the cross to bring in e^b, but look at all the genes that would come with it and haunt us for years to come.
I have seen conflicting data about lacing on extended black (E) and have a hard time believing \"good\" Andalusians are E/E.

[Guest]

John,

If a person used the brown red, they would still have to breed in needed melanin enhancers from a blue ameraucana and pick up a columbian restrictor and a pattern gene from another breed. Sebright  (would have to deal with yellow skin, rose comb. henny feathering, white egg shell) would work for  the bantams. Silver laced  polish would work on the large fowl but would have to deal with white ear lobes, dublex comb and a crest. And along the way work on body type. But that is the nature of breeding for a specific trait. It would take a while but eventually I would have some very good blue and laced ameraucana.

Tim