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Silver Standard Description
Guest:
Hello John,
What you\'ve said makes the picture a bit clearer for me. Correct me if I\'m misunderstanding this, but it seems that the Silver Ameraucana started out life genetically as a Silver Birchen that wasn\'t well colored. As time went on and other breeds were added to make them better, they\'ve slowly begun to change over to a genetically Silver Duckwing. So I\'m tempted to assume that at least some of the reason for the poor types that are still being worked with are due to a mixed genotype for birchen and duckwing. In other words, there are still birds out there that are genetically E^R//e+ at the E-locus. Other genetic factors will of course play a big role in how they look, but a split at the E-locus would really make a mess of things if the breeder wasn\'t aware of it and knew what to look for.
If this is true then we have a unique opportunity in the Ameraucana community to work out several things in one basic action. We can continue working toward the silver duckwing type and at the same time create the BB Reds. As long as we can all agree on whether we want saddle shafting to be in their standards or not, then there\'s nothing stopping us all from being successful. The second thing that we have on our plates to consider is, we can also go ahead and make Silver Birchens from our Brown reds. Not at all a difficult breeding project, shouldn\'t take more than two years to get something good enough to show if approached intelligently. But it would makes sense if we offered Brown Reds & Birchens along with the Gold Blacks, that would be an entire offering of colors within one pattern.
Mind you it\'s dangerous to give me ideas, lol. The wild type \"e+\" allele (aka BB Red or Duckwing family) puts other options on future Ameraucana breeder\'s plates. True Creles are possible, so are Brassy Backs. At this rate, we\'ll almost be able to rival the OE in varieties available!
Regards,
Dan Demarest
Missouri
John:
--- Quote ---Silver Ameraucana started out life genetically as a Silver Birchen that wasn\'t well colored. As time went on and other breeds were added to make them better, they\'ve slowly begun to change over to a genetically Silver Duckwing.
--- End quote ---
Yes, the bantam male I mentioned was birchen so I used OE silver duckwing to get the silver/white wing bay.
I don\'t remember if my original medium sized \"silvers\" had the silver wing bay or not. I would imagine they did, because I remember the silver bantam Jerry Segler showed many years ago in Iowa looked very much like OE in type and I got my start from him.
I have developed some varieties of LF on my own, but remember that Wayne Meredith and some others did also. Today most of these stains have been mixed. For instance, years ago Wayne bought a LF black from me to use in his black matings and I bought a LF silver from him to breed to my silvers. I don\'t know what Wayne used to create the silvers that he developed, but my line carries that blood.
Thanks for taking on the LF black gold and lavender projects. I just started on the black gold this year for two reasons. First to help get it developed and recognized, since it takes at least 5 breeders for 5 years to go thru the qualifying process, and second to get started on a LF version just so it wouldn\'t be left behind. I\'m not a big fan of black gold, but want to help those that are. I am a fan of lavender and have started working on them along with a few others this year.
For years I resisted working on new varieties, simple because we have some recognized ones that need to be developed like bantam silvers, LF silvers, LF buffs and LF brown reds. I had all 16 varieties, but have cut back on some that are better established to concentrate more on others that need work.
Guest:
Thanks John.
So we\'re still looking at the standards for the Silver (duckwing) variety. I noticed the same discrepancy in the APA standards between bantam Silvers and large fowl, and I also noticed that this difference isn\'t present when looking at the Light Browns.
Just my 2 cents, but I\'d prefer that the large fowl and bantam look the same in pattern and coloration. I like the large fowl description, like a Light Brown large fowl leghorn but in the silver color.
I\'ll start a new thread for the Black Gold and Lavender discussions so this thread doesn\'t get completely hijacked. ;)
Regards,
Dan Demarest
Missouri
grisaboy:
Hi Dan,
Nice to see you on this forum.
The Silver Ameraucana has the e+ gene at the e-locus. This has been part of the problem with development of this variety because the e+ gene is not part of the original gene pool. I\'m not sure any one knows the original gene pool but it seems to based on the wheaton e^wh gene and not the wild type e+ gene. I believe that the E^R Birchen gene is also new to the breed. I have used Wheaton birds in my Silver project and got BB Reds and Silver Wheatons in the back crosses. I have also used some Easter Egger birds in the project that I am not sure what the E-locus is. The hens come with either white heads and breast or yellow heads and breast. Not typical wheaton or BB Red colors. I am hoping that the white headed hens will help get rid of the red shoulder feathers in my Silver males.
Curtis
Guest:
Hi Curtis,
Thanks for the welcome.
Have you continued with the BB Reds or Silver Wheatens? I\'d be very interested to see them and your easter egg hens. My original stock of easter egger hens consisted of two pullets, one was silver laced and the other was reverse silver laced, most likely due to wyandotte genetics. They definately brought in the e^b partridge gene. The e^wh wheaten and E extended black e-locus genes were brought into my genepool by the black sex link hens (rhode island male crossed to barred rock females), crossed to a barred rock male. After years of working with them I managed to get rid of the Extended black and I\'m able to segregate wheaten and partridge when needed. The description of your hens sounds very similar to some of the segregants I\'ve gotten over the years. It would be interesting to compare them. I haven\'t had a lot of red shoulders show up in my birds yet, but brassiness does show up occasionally.
Regards,
Dan Demarest
Missouri
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