Author Topic: Barred Ameraucana  (Read 31861 times)

Anne Foley

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Barred Ameraucana
« on: September 14, 2008, 10:03:31 AM »
Hello everyone!  I know that there has been some discussion in past years about barred/cuckoo Ameraucanas.  My husband and I have been working with a feather researcher in CA and most recently used some of our LF Black Ameraucana to do a barred cross.  Out of the 30-40 offspring, it looks like a few (4-6?) are going to have some nice Ameraucana features including the slate legs (no yellow in foot pads), pea comb, some beard/muff, and cuckoo/barred coloring.  They are not yet developed enough to say much about type.  These birds are 50% Bl. Ameraucana, 25% New Hampshire, and 25% Barred Rock-- all LF.  They will be given away as layers this fall.  The blood we need from them has already been drawn.  They were not vaccinated as we did not have plans to keep them.  However, they appear to be very healthy and are being currently kept in our fenced gardens for fall clean-up.  If anyone thinks that they might be of interest to them, please let us know.  They range in ages with the oldest ones maybe being 4 months (?) old.

Mike Gilbert

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2008, 03:31:20 PM »
Anne, it has been demonstrated that the sex linked barring gene prevents dermal melanin, so would be shocked if your birds had slate legs.    It is possible they have some dark pigment in the epidermis (outside layer of skin) but that is not the same as slate.    Also, since you used  yellow legged breeds to make the cross, you will be dealing with that for generations to come. Can you post pictures?

Anne Foley

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2008, 04:44:34 PM »
I agree that the dermis is white and the epidermis is dark but not black.  However, it has always seemed that the standard was a bit loose on the definition of slate.  Anyway, here are a couple pictures!

John

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2008, 04:54:02 PM »
Anne,

It looks like you made good progress in a short time.

bryngyld

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 05:12:45 PM »
Dang!  I wish I had room for another variety.  I\'m DROOLING.
Lyne Peterson
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Korfus Kluckers

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 06:12:22 PM »
Great job! Those are beautiful.

Mike Gilbert

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2008, 07:17:43 PM »
How about a photo of a cockerel\'s legs?    What will you use in the next mating?    Paul, if you happen to read this thread, why don\'t you share with us how many years you worked on this variety?

Anne Foley

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2008, 09:43:55 PM »
Thank you for all the nice comments.  I want to clarify that we have no plans to work on a barred variety.  We thought it might be of interest to some ABC members to see the results we got from these matings for our researcher friend.  Mike, I am not sure if there is a nice cockerel in the bunch.  The only barred+darker shank male in the older set has a single comb and the younger set is not developed to the point where the sex is obvious.  I can take a closer look tomorrow.

Paul

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2008, 09:43:09 AM »
  I invested five years in the barred project, which I scrapped when our only barred male raised in 2004 was taken by a coyote.  I went about trying to produce them all wrong, but learned a lot along the way.  I tried to find a barred Plymoth Rock cockerel but ended-up purchasing three pullets from one person and a hen from another to start with two different lines.  I used two unrelated black Ameraucana males on the two pens of barred females.  100% of the pullets were black and 100% of males were cuckoo.  The best male from each pen was mated with the best pullets from the other pen.  Best I remember the second generation produced some females that were cuckoo.  There shank and egg color never filled the required slate or sky blue respectfully, but they were good layers and meaty.  
Paul Smith

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 01:03:18 AM »
So, does the presence of slate legs in this pullet indicate that development of Barred Ameraucanas is possible? If so, I\'d sure like to see breeders take it on.

Mike Gilbert

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2008, 06:51:15 AM »
The short answer is the pullet does not have slate legs.
What you see is dark pigment in the epidermis.   The males will not have this, or at least as much of it.   This is no different than the pigment you would see in a barred rock pullet, except the epidermis also contains yellow.   As I explained above, the barring gene prevents dark pigment in the dermis.

Anne Foley

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2008, 09:49:08 AM »
Where in the standard is slate defined using terms such as pigment (presence or lack thereof) in the epidermis and dermis?  Is it possible to over-interepret the standard?  The pictures in this thread are of two separate pullets.  There is one male (unfortunately with a single comb).  He does have some dark leg pigmentation but not as dark as the pullets in the photographs.  There are a few others but they are too young to sex.  I am not sure that the Ameraucana breed needs more varieties but not everyone likes plain black chickens like I do!  These birds were a by-product of a breeding project with a researcher friend of ours.  We used our black Ameraucanas because we needed black hens for the project and they happened to be conveniently located on our property!  The assortment of offspring is actually spectacular.  The range of leg colors, for example, pretty much covers the whole gamut.

Guest

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 01:13:45 PM »
It would be great to have a central reference place with any established specs (and notes on conditions necessary for producing them) for Ameraucanas to be posted for everyone to be able to review and work from.

Ideas on info to include:
* Ameraucanas must produce true to their color variety X amount of the time.
* The required slate leg color is made up of ____ genes. You can identify correct coloring by _______________.
Etc.

Also info specific to various color varieties would be great, such as:
* Blue X Black = 75% Black, 25% Blue
* Lavender is under development for APA approval in Large Fowl. Estimated date for qualifying meet is 200X.
Etc.

Could a reference section be created on the website for such info? It seems this could facilitate the Ameraucana breed being spread and improved far more quickly and reliably, and it could save MANY people time wandering through less productive efforts.
It would be great if it could be a condensed, edited section of the website rather than a general forum. But that would require some work by a couple designated people.
Perhaps everyone could submit suggestions in as condensed format as they can, and a couple editors could make any needed revisions and add info to the reference center???

John

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 05:55:24 PM »
The Standard\'s range for shank color includes slate, dark slate, very dark slate and black.  If you can get a barred, cuckoo or other variety to breed true for any type of true slate (from light to dark) or black shanks I would think you have a viable variety.    

Anne Foley

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Barred Ameraucana
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 06:58:19 PM »
I have noticed in the Standard that there are a number of breeds where different varieties in that breed have different leg color requirements.  For example, in Buff Orpingtons it is pinkish white legs, in Black Orpingtons it is black to dark slate legs, and in Blue Orpingtons it is leaden blue legs.  Also, some breeds in the standard do not even ask that the leg color be uniform.  For example, the Houdan calls for pinkish white mottled with black in the legs.  Just some thoughts.