Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Housing, Health & Hatching => Topic started by: mustangsaguaro on March 08, 2012, 01:01:25 PM
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I looked into having this done last year but opted not to at the time. Now the question comes up again for me do I get certified or don\'t I? Is it really worth it? I do know that if one is NPIP certified you agree to buy eggs and birds from NPIP certified flocks.
I don\'t ever plan on shipping live birds, just don\'t want to deal w/ the hassle and worry that they will make it thru alive. I however do plan on selling fertile eggs. I do plan on showing but not out of state. I live in Ca. and I checked last year and the only 2 shows I plan on attending don\'t require birds to be tested.
I did contact a NPIP certified breeder tein my sta to find out if it was hard and what the cost was. The cost for the blood testing is covered by the state but to become certified it\'s $50 twice a year. So $100 for the year. Honestly I think that pretty high.
Also, how strict are other states about non NPIP eggs being shipped? And how would the state or PO know if the eggs came from a non NPIP flock? Just questions that have come up while debating whether or not it\'s worth it.
Thanks
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would the state or PO know if the eggs came from a non NPIP flock?
Don't ship to Hawaii...enough said (in other words I don't want to suggest you try something that some silly law says your shouldn't). ::)
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I guess that would just depend on what your plans are and who you plan to sell to. If you plan to sell to other dealers, most are all NPIP, so then it would be necessary. I became NPIP last fall and am finding that I personally wish I hadn\'t...but for a number of reasons that may not pertain to you.
1. I am finding that \"every\" person I have sold to so far hasn\'t even wanted or asked for a certification paper. Not even the woman who offered me $100 for one of my hens last week. I have sold quite a few chicks and adults since becoming NPIP and have not filled out the first paper. All of my sales have been local, though. I did however get an e-mail yesterday from someone wanting to order eggs from out of state, so in that case, I would need the paper. As far as the PO knowing, the first purebred Ameraucanas I got were hatched from eggs bought from out of state and I did not receive any certificates, and to be honest, I\'m not real sure how anyone would know they were required to be NPIP certified to ship eggs out of state had it not been for the NPIP lady telling me that. But I\'m kind of a stickler for following rules, so I personally wouldn\'t ship out of state if I weren\'t NPIP now that I know that...however, I would double check with the PO to see if that is true and/or necessary.
2. I really wanted to purchase a black cockerel last fall, but couldn\'t because the people were not NPIP, and when I called around trying to find someone who could just test the bird so I could buy it, I couldn\'t find anyone. It definitely hinders you when you are wanting to buy sometimes.
3. It was also pointed out to me that a person who is NPIP is on the government\'s list as having chickens. Without getting into a big discussion that many might roll their eyes at, in today\'s economy, if push comes to shove in the food chain, I wish the government didn\'t know I had a food source they could possibly confiscate.
Next year, when it\'s time to renew, I don\'t think I will. I will just sell locally, and if I go to a show, anything I have to sell would have been tested there. And that way I am free to buy whatever I\'d like without restrictions. That\'s what I\'m thinking right now.
I am not recommending that you not get certified. I\'m just letting you know how I personally feel. But I\'m also in a very good area to sell everything I can hatch so it may be different for a lot of others. And just for the record, it only cost me $35 for the full year for a flock under 25. And the mileage fee was waved since I let them test for Avian Influenza.
Hope this helped,
Sharon
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Wow - in NC I pay 10 cents/bird with a minimum charge of $5! I think I paid $8 this past December. That\'s for NPIP, which includes testing for AI, but to be certified AI free you have to test I think every 3 months (I believe the price is the same) but that\'s optional and I don\'t.
Anyone I would be buying a bird from is already NPIP, so that\'s not a factor. I have to admit I don\'t like the big-brother aspect, but too late to worry about that - the Scrapies program (required to show goats) already has me on their radar. I mainly do it for shows - one less thing to worry about after grooming, packing & hauling birds half way across the state.
As far as the state finding out, I\'m not sure how they do it but Virginia WILL find out. And NPIP is only the tip of the iceberg to take a bird into VA. Not worth it for me.
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Thanks for the comments so far. Very helpful. I know some states are way more strict than others. Is there a way to find out which states are more strict than others? I had planned on shipping eggs only w/in the 48 states (no shipping to Alaska or Hawaii for me). And as I originally stated don\'t plan on shipping live birds. Don\'t want to deal w/ the hassel/stress of wondering if they made it thru ok and made it alive. It sounds like Virginia is out to unless you are NPIP certified.
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I just found this link that shows the shipping laws in every state for both poultry and hatching eggs. And I\'m pretty sure these are the laws that are mainly talking about what\'s coming IN to each state, rather than the laws of what you are shipping OUT of state...but I\'m not absolutely sure. Seems to me you\'d need to check the state requirements of where you are shipping to. But for the most part, I think if you are wanting to ship out of state, you need to be NPIP certified. I wouldn\'t try to ship without it.
http://www.guineafowl.com/GeneralStore/regulations.htm
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Is there a way to find out which states are more strict than others?
NPIP sends me a large booklet each year and requirements of each state are listed.
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\\http://www.guineafowl.com/GeneralStore/regulations.htm[/quote]
Was there a Date to go with this link, how current is it?
I heard that Virginia changed its regulations.
In Fl if the parent birds of the bird you want to purchase were tested, that is good enough.
In other words, if John\'s tested birds were sold to Sue and you bought a bird from Sue it has been tested also.
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It sounds like Virginia is out to unless you are NPIP certified.
NPIP is only part of it - you also need a permit from the state of VA. You have to submit an application, get an approval number and put it on every egg shipment. They make you jump through multiple hoops:
2VAC5-141-60. Avian entry requirements.
A. All entry of birds into Virginia must be in compliance with the testing and all other requirements of the State Veterinarian\'s Avian Influenza (H5 and H7) Proclamation dated January 18, 2012, unless temporarily superseded by a valid proclamation issued pursuant to § 3.2-6010 of the Code of Virginia, published in the Virginia Register of Regulations, and posted on the Virginia Regulatory Town Hall. Certificates of veterinary inspection or reports issued by a laboratory approved by any state or federal animal health authority must be dated in accordance with said proclamation.
B. All birds in commerce not classified as poultry must be accompanied by a health certificate issued within 10 days prior to entry into Virginia. Any poultry in commerce that by its nature is fit only as a pet must be accompanied by an official health certificate issued within 10 days prior to entry into Virginia.
C. Approval numbers required for shipments of poultry and hatching eggs.
1. Each shipper of poultry or hatching eggs shall first secure an approval number from the State Veterinarian. This approval number must appear on each shipment of poultry or hatching eggs shipped into Virginia.
2. Applications for approval numbers must be made on forms provided by the State Veterinarian. Each application shall require the following information on each premises from which the poultry or hatching eggs originate:
a. The name and address of each premises owner;
b. The species and the number of birds for each on each premise, or for hatcheries hatching capacity;
c. For chickens and turkeys, and the parent flock of the hatching eggs of chickens and turkeys, the date of the most recent Pullorum-typhoid test, the total number or the percentage of positive reactions to said test, and the Pullorum-typhoid status attained; and
d. Any additional information the State Veterinarian may require.
3. Applications, when completed, must be forwarded to the official state agency, the state livestock health official, or other competent and recognized authority of the state of origin for verification, approval, and signature and then forwarded to the State Veterinarian for final approval.
4. Poultry and hatching eggs shall not be shipped into Virginia until final approval has been granted and the approval number is received.
D. Chickens, turkeys, and hatching eggs of chickens and turkeys shall not be imported into Virginia unless originating exclusively from flocks or hatcheries participating in the National Poultry Improvement Plan (NPIP) or issued a permit and negative to a Pullorum-typhoid test within 30 days prior to entry.
E. Exemptions for hatching eggs and poultry, providing the hatching eggs or poultry remain subject to the State Veterinarian\'s Avian influenza (H5 and H7) Proclamation dated January 18, 2012, unless temporarily superseded by a valid proclamation issued pursuant to § 3.2-6010 of the Code of Virginia, published in the Virginia Register of Regulations, and posted on the Virginia Regulatory Town Hall.
1. This chapter shall not apply to hatching eggs or poultry passing directly through the Commonwealth of Virginia in interstate commerce.
2. This chapter shall not apply to poultry imported into the Commonwealth of Virginia for immediate slaughter and consigned directly to a poultry processing establishment that is approved and inspected by the USDA or by the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.
F. Exemptions for birds other than poultry, providing the birds remain subject to the State Veterinarian\'s Avian Influenza (H5 and H7) Proclamation dated January 18, 2012, unless temporarily superseded by a valid proclamation issued pursuant to § 3.2-6010 of the Code of Virginia, published in the Virginia Register of Regulations, and posted on the Virginia Regulatory Town Hall.
1. This chapter shall not apply to birds other than poultry that are passing directly through Virginia to another state in interstate commerce.
2. This chapter shall not apply to birds other than poultry when the birds are kept properly under control by their owner or custodian when passing through Virginia to another state.
3. This chapter shall not apply to birds other than poultry brought into Virginia by a resident or by a resident of another state who intends to make his residence in Virginia except if brought into the Commonwealth with the intent of offering it for public adoption, transfer, sale, trade, or promotional incentive.
4. This chapter shall not apply to birds other than poultry brought into Virginia for less than 10 days for the purpose of hunting or legal exhibition with no change of ownership.
G. This chapter shall not be construed to (i) permit the entry into Virginia of any avian species otherwise prohibited or restricted by any state or federal law, regulation, or directive; or (ii) contravene additional entry requirements imposed by any state or federal law, regulation, or directive.
Statutory Authority
§ 3.2-6002 of the Code of Virginia.
Historical Notes
Derived from Virginia Register Volume 28, Issue 8, eff. January 18, 2012.
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Was there a Date to go with this link, how current is it?
I heard that Virginia changed its regulations.
I\'m not seeing a date anywhere. If you click on the link at the top of that page, it\'ll take you to the home page, and if you can find where this link was, you may be able to find the date.
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Missouri NPIP is free and if you buy birds that are not from an NPIP source you need to have them tested before bringing them on to your property.
In my opinion NPIP participation depends on what you are doing. Are you going to shows? What are the requirements at those shows? Do they provide testing on site to meet their requirements? What are the expectations of the market you are selling to?
I participate in NPIP because the Missouri version is easy and free and it allows me to sell more broadly.
Michael
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I looked into having this done last year but opted not to at the time. Now the question comes up again for me do I get certified or don\'t I? Is it really worth it? I do know that if one is NPIP certified you agree to buy eggs and birds from NPIP certified flocks.
I don\'t ever plan on shipping live birds, just don\'t want to deal w/ the hassle and worry that they will make it thru alive. I however do plan on selling fertile eggs. I do plan on showing but not out of state. I live in Ca. and I checked last year and the only 2 shows I plan on attending don\'t require birds to be tested.
I did contact a NPIP certified breeder tein my sta to find out if it was hard and what the cost was. The cost for the blood testing is covered by the state but to become certified it\'s $50 twice a year. So $100 for the year. Honestly I think that pretty high.
Also, how strict are other states about non NPIP eggs being shipped? And how would the state or PO know if the eggs came from a non NPIP flock? Just questions that have come up while debating whether or not it\'s worth it.
Thanks
That cost for NPIP in CA right now is based on them having a grant to help pay for the costs, it is normally much higher here in CA. None of the shows that we have entered in CA this year have required any birds to be tested. I have been waiting since December for them to get some one out here to test my birds. My fees have been paid, I have contacted them repeatedly and nothing. It is very frustrating!
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Weird that a national program would vary so much from state to state. I remember someone else saying that their state (another state besides CA) was really expensive, NC is a token amount, MO is free. Do the states not receive any funding from the USDA to run it? Here you go, you have to do this AND you have to figure out how to pay for it... yep, sounds about right... :rolleyes:
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In the last year or so I have come to understand the importance of NPIP. I live in Hawaii and chickens cannot come into this state unless they have a permit. The permit requires the seller to be NPIP. I thought I would look into how I could become NPIP certified myself. Guess what... Hawaii does not participate in the NPIP program. You cannot get a bird in here without it but they don\'t participate? So typical of Hawaii. I cannot get NPIP certified at any price.
~ROLL EYES~
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Was there a Date to go with this link, how current is it?
I heard that Virginia changed its regulations.
I\'m not seeing a date anywhere. If you click on the link at the top of that page, it\'ll take you to the home page, and if you can find where this link was, you may be able to find the date.
They did Jan 18, 2012. You used to have to be certified \"MG Clean\" to ship to VA. There is no \"MG Clean\" classification for Subpart E of the NPIP program, which is the program hobbyists fall under.
Now, you just have to be NPIP certified and send in a form to get a yearly permit #.
You have to have a yearly permit in:
Georgia
Maryland
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
South Dakota
Virginia
Entry permits before shipping:
Alaska
Connecticut
Illinois
Kansas
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Texas
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Kim,
What are they charging you $50.00 per year for? The test is a yearly test.
If you do decide to get certified, I would recommend getting the AI testing done also on a quarterly basis. This puts you in the AI free category which most State require when shipping in and to get those permits. It also provides coverage should there be an outbreak of AI and the come to \"cull\" your flock. You will get $$$ to replace your flock.
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Entry permits before shipping:
Alaska
Connecticut
Illinois
Kansas
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Texas
Are these entry permits for live birds or eggs too? I know Texas is pretty strict.
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New Hampshire is for started birds. RI, the purchaser must get permit and Texas is for all hatching eggs and birds. You must also get a CVI for started birds in TX.
All the rest are for everything entering.
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Kim,
What are they charging you $50.00 per year for? The test is a yearly test.
If you do decide to get certified, I would recommend getting the AI testing done also on a quarterly basis. This puts you in the AI free category which most State require when shipping in and to get those permits. It also provides coverage should there be an outbreak of AI and the come to \"cull\" your flock. You will get $$$ to replace your flock.
Actually it is $100/yr. $50 twice a year. When I called to get info last year about this the lady was very nice and helpful. And sent me a packet in the mail which I still have. They test for obviously pullorum/typhoid and AI. Those blood tests are actually free of charge as the state has a grant for the blood tests. But to actually get the NPIP cert. I guess once the test are done the state vet or an inspector comes out and inspects your facility to make sure everything is up to par. I guess that\'s what the $100/yr is. Perhaps I should give them a call or email tomorrow and find out exactly what the $100 entails.
Remember I am in Ca. and they get you for every little thing out here. THe state needs the money. And I guess that\'s one way to get money the state needs.
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My State charges $85.00 an hour from the time the vet leaves the facility he works out of. This is over two hours away from me. They also are charging a per diem....
I get around this charge by having my site inspection (which is a once a year thing, not twice) by having it done when the vet is doing the AI testing. All of the charges associated with the AI program should be included in the Federal funding.
I argued and fought with the State when they first started charging by the hour and now they let me use a vet tech from my veterinarians office to pull blood and I send it in to the State Lab for the pullorum tests. They didn\'t want me to quit the program.
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In the 1970\'s the state technician use to come to your property and do the birds for free. I still have one of my old NPIP certificates. Here in Pa they still have a state program plus there is the NPIP federal program which ever one prefers but they try and talk you into doing the NPIP program.
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Kim,
What are they charging you $50.00 per year for? The test is a yearly test.
If you do decide to get certified, I would recommend getting the AI testing done also on a quarterly basis. This puts you in the AI free category which most State require when shipping in and to get those permits. It also provides coverage should there be an outbreak of AI and the come to \"cull\" your flock. You will get $$$ to replace your flock.
Jean,
I contacted the person in my state that does the testing and what not. I had some questions for her and to see if things had changed since last year. Here are her answers. Perhaps the question you asked of what they are charging me for is answered.
Hi Kim
Thanks for getting back to me with questions… nothing has changed since we first communicated, but I will clear up a few things for you…
1. While the small flock program is in effect, you do not pay for someone to draw the blood samples, nor do you pay the lab fees. The CA Poultry Health Board (me) pays for both while I have funding for the program. The “state” isn’t paying the fees, the CPHB is paying the fees. If I lose my USDA funding for Avian Influenza monitoring, then the flockowner would be responsible for both these expenses. We will be testing for Pullorum Typhoid and Avian Influenza.
2. $50 is payable when you send in your application form to me. I hold on to the check until the blood work is complete and then deposit it once the flock inspection is done. This fee is then billed April 1 of each year as the Annual Fee. The $50 flock certification fee is paid after you have completed the steps to join and receive your official NPIP member number. You will receive a VS 9-2 when your flock is certified, and an invoice for the flock certification fee will be attached. So, these 2 fees are billed at different times, I do not collect $100 up front to cover the year. But, each year it will cost you a total of $100 to maintain membership.
3. If all of your breeder birds are purchased from NPIP primary breeders, we will only test for PT when joining initially. But, if you continue to breed your birds and their progeny, you will be considered a primary breeder and we will test once a year for PT and 2x a year for Avian Influenza (AI). So, PT and AI will be tested at the same time and approximately 180 days later we will come back and test just for AI.
4. A CA Dept of Food and Agriculture veterinarian will do the flock inspection upon joining. This is a one-time event…. They do not inspect every year.
5. My budget only allows me to send a tech out one time to do the blood draws when joining… so if you want all your birds to be certified, then we need to wait until they all are over 16 weeks, which sounds like it might be late summer/early fall. I cannot send someone out now to test birds of age, and then again in a couple of months to test the remaining birds as they become the right age. You will need to wait until the entire flock is over 16 weeks.
6. Once we start, the process could take 1-3 months to complete. Reasons for that are: if you have positive reactors to the blood tests, those birds need to be quarantined and we test again 30 days from the original test date; the CDFA fits us in for inspections, so I am reliant on their schedule and when they can get the time to do it.
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Oh, Virginia. I was thinking about getting NPIP certified but like others have mentioned, selling locally sort of avoids the need for it. I\'m in the Virginia Poultry Breeders Assoc. and we have a hard time getting out-of-state entrants at shows because Virginia is so strict. The strange thing is that the Post Office doesn\'t seem to enforce the entry requirements as I have heard on other forums of people in Virginia getting shipped eggs that didn\'t have entry papers even though the box was marked as eggs. Maybe they thought they were decorated Easter Eggs (pysanky)?
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Kim,
What are they charging you $50.00 per year for? The test is a yearly test.
If you do decide to get certified, I would recommend getting the AI testing done also on a quarterly basis. This puts you in the AI free category which most State require when shipping in and to get those permits. It also provides coverage should there be an outbreak of AI and the come to \"cull\" your flock. You will get $$$ to replace your flock.
Jean,
I contacted the person in my state that does the testing and what not. I had some questions for her and to see if things had changed since last year. Here are her answers. Perhaps the question you asked of what they are charging me for is answered.
Hi Kim
Thanks for getting back to me with questions… nothing has changed since we first communicated, but I will clear up a few things for you…
1. While the small flock program is in effect, you do not pay for someone to draw the blood samples, nor do you pay the lab fees. The CA Poultry Health Board (me) pays for both while I have funding for the program. The “state” isn’t paying the fees, the CPHB is paying the fees. If I lose my USDA funding for Avian Influenza monitoring, then the flockowner would be responsible for both these expenses. We will be testing for Pullorum Typhoid and Avian Influenza.
2. $50 is payable when you send in your application form to me. I hold on to the check until the blood work is complete and then deposit it once the flock inspection is done. This fee is then billed April 1 of each year as the Annual Fee. The $50 flock certification fee is paid after you have completed the steps to join and receive your official NPIP member number. You will receive a VS 9-2 when your flock is certified, and an invoice for the flock certification fee will be attached. So, these 2 fees are billed at different times, I do not collect $100 up front to cover the year. But, each year it will cost you a total of $100 to maintain membership.
3. If all of your breeder birds are purchased from NPIP primary breeders, we will only test for PT when joining initially. But, if you continue to breed your birds and their progeny, you will be considered a primary breeder and we will test once a year for PT and 2x a year for Avian Influenza (AI). So, PT and AI will be tested at the same time and approximately 180 days later we will come back and test just for AI.
4. A CA Dept of Food and Agriculture veterinarian will do the flock inspection upon joining. This is a one-time event…. They do not inspect every year.
5. My budget only allows me to send a tech out one time to do the blood draws when joining… so if you want all your birds to be certified, then we need to wait until they all are over 16 weeks, which sounds like it might be late summer/early fall. I cannot send someone out now to test birds of age, and then again in a couple of months to test the remaining birds as they become the right age. You will need to wait until the entire flock is over 16 weeks.
6. Once we start, the process could take 1-3 months to complete. Reasons for that are: if you have positive reactors to the blood tests, those birds need to be quarantined and we test again 30 days from the original test date; the CDFA fits us in for inspections, so I am reliant on their schedule and when they can get the time to do it.
Annual fee for what costs? She just said she is funded by the Feds. If they only do you AI twice a year, you are not considered AI clean.
You are supposed to be inspected every year. It\'s in the Federal guidelines.
Now I know why people in your State are not certified....
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Well I had in interesting conversation today with a poultry vet. He is the only vet on this island that deals with chickens. Apparently he was very active in getting \"newcastle\" under control in California.
Anyway, I wanted to know what else I should be doing with my chickens besides worming, controlling mites, balance nutrition, etc. I told him I had heard all kinds of terrible stories about Mareks disease. He said that he had never come across a case of mareks or newcastle disease here on the Big Island. I told him that my birds are exposed to wild birds all the time (doves always get caught in my coops).
Apparently he does not think I need to vaccinate my birds.
I also asked about the NPIP thing with Hawaii. I mentioned how I cannot get birds without NPIP from the mainland but this state does not participate so how could I ever ship birds out? (not that I see any need to be able to ship birds out in the next millennium) But he was aware of the typical double standard Hawaii has and assured me that if there was ever a need for me to ship birds out he would find out what I needed and help me out.
He seemed like a very informative and helpful vet. I am glad I made contact, in case a situation ever arrises that I need vet assistance. One never knows.