Ameraucana Breeders Club

The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Ameraucana Marketplace => Topic started by: Guest on February 18, 2006, 08:39:10 PM

Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 18, 2006, 08:39:10 PM
I would like to suggest the ABC publish an official egg color chart.  The American Maran\'s Club did just that.  Actually, they borrowed from the official French chart.  See http://marans-club.club.fr/echllang.htm#echelle  They had the official chart printed up and mailed out to all club members (for a small fee).

The Ameraucana breed is famous for blue eggs and muffs.  I know a lot of fanciers are into plumage color and feather perfection, but if we really want to promote this breed and get more people raising Ameraucanas we need to emphasize their utility and production traits.  There is a lot of confusion regarding egg color, and since it is not part of the APA standard or a judging factor in shows, it is very easy for \"award winning birds\" to not have good egg color, further diluting the traits that made this breed famous to begin with.  Having an official egg color chart and rating system will provide a target for dedicated breeders.  We all breed for multiple traits, but without a standard, egg color will continue to be random.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Will (a new breeder who wants to do the right thing, but is confused)

William Morrow
Whitmore Farm
Emmitsburg, MD 21727
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 18, 2006, 09:42:36 PM
I think that the pretty blue egg is desireable, but I would really hate to exclude a great bird based on the color of her egg.....How would you rate a cock bird? :thinking:
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 18, 2006, 11:20:56 PM
I think egg color is very important, ee have all shades of blue and green,  brown.  making the egg color of the ameraucana more desireable, to have a bird that fits the standard and lay and lay correct colored  eggs should be the goal off all  
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 19, 2006, 08:59:00 AM
Blue tinted eggs are definitely the goal.    Actually, those of you who have attended the national meet either of the past two years know that we do have an egg contest, and a major part of the scoring is based on color.    That being said, we are trying to produce exhibition quality birds that also lay blue eggs.   This is a long term project and is not something that can be accomplished overnight in any particular strain that needs work in the egg shell color area.

Mike Gilbert
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 19, 2006, 11:37:09 AM
I think that you have a valid point, and some of you gusys who have your birds right where you want them, can focus on egg color.  Me, I\'m still working on mine.  Egg color is irrelevant.  As long as I have type and size, I\'m a happy clam.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 08:25:08 AM
As someone who breeds both Marans and Ameraucanas, I\'d like to wade in on this topic. My focus for my Marans is egg color. I am not concerned about type at this stage, as egg color is all for me with Marans. Once we get egg color right (and given where the French are I think it will take a long time), then I feel we can focus on type. Of course, those who are working to get Marans accepted into the Standard disagree with this, but each of us makes our own choices there.

Now, when it comes to my Ameraucanas, for me the focus is breeding to the Standard. Egg color is all very well and good, but I do show my birds and as such work to get them/keep them as close to the Standard as I can. Egg color can come later for them, as far as I am concerned.

Two different breeds, two different focuses, at least for me...
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 08:39:54 AM
so for the extreme if you have the perfect type  ameraucana that lays a choclate egg what do you have??   If you havea chocolate egg layers with muffs and a beard what do you have?????
Title: Egg Color
Post by: John on February 20, 2006, 09:56:52 AM
Quote
Egg color can come later for them

That is the same reasoning that most Ameraucana breeders use.  I\'ve noticed over the years that the people that are \"breeders\" or at least understand breeding also understand that that is the best approach.  Some folks want perfection right now and can\'t understand why every Ameraucana doesn\'t lay the proper shade of blue egg.  
This is still a relatively new breed.  Some varieties aren\'t yet developed enough to produce consistent show quality birds let alone show quality blue eggs.  Many varieties were accepted into the Standards before they existed.  We are now trying to develop those varieties…one generation at a time.  
Some of the oldest varieties, like bantam wheaten, produce offspring that lay blue eggs quite consistently.  Selecting for egg color is not a priority in some varieties that have many other traits that some of us feel need to be developed first.
It seems that the primary genes for egg color are not the problem, but rather some color modifying genes that need to be bred out.  If that means we crossbreed to bring in the correct modifying genes (or absence of them) we could be back are square one.  If we can make an outcross to another variety though to get the proper genes we won\'t have as far to go to get back to where we were.  Another option may be to just keep selecting for the best colored eggs.  That will only work if the birds are not \"pure\" for the modifying genes that we don\'t want.
 
Title: Egg Color
Post by: grisaboy on February 20, 2006, 10:13:47 AM
I have a really nice exhibition quality black pullet that took reserve breed at a fairly big show last fall.  She just started laying, and lays a tinted egg.  Not blue at all, not even green.  It is heart wrenching to cull a bird like that, but it doesn\'t seem right to use her in a breeding pen.  I still have her and will probably use her in my lavendar breeding program where type is more important than egg color right now.

Curtis
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 01:31:47 PM
Thank you John for putting that into perspective.  Sometimes, my thoughts just don\'t translate to the written word very well.

I have two, beautiful blue hens that have already taken champion AOSB, and Reserve champion in the two shows that I have placed them in since I received them.  They are beautiful to the eye, and very, very, typey.....but they lay olive green eggs.....OH WELL!

That won\'t stop me from breeding them.

Angela
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 01:34:39 PM
Yes or no: Doesn\'t our Standard describe this breed as having BLUE eggs?
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 01:47:53 PM
Yes, actually it does.....but how many judges wait to see what color egg a bird lays?

I personnally feel that it should be amended to say \"tinted\".  But hey, you guys don\'t flog me for expressing a different view point.....LOL
Title: Egg Color
Post by: John on February 20, 2006, 01:49:39 PM
Quote
Yes or no

Yes and No.  Both Standards mention that Ameraucanas lay blue eggs, but neither includes it in the breed descriptions as a characteristic to be judged.
The ABA does say a bird can be disqualified for laying an egg that has a color \"other than blue or a shade of blue\".
 
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 03:19:29 PM
then i sounds simple to me don,t show birds that lay off colored eggs,
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 03:52:37 PM
I have a better idea!
  How bout we only show cock birds?  Then the judges will never know........

Sorry, I don\'t mean to make lite of your stance...I just don\'t believe that it is realistic at this point to limit the breed to \"blue\" eggs.  Remember, this is a work in progress!  
Title: Egg Color
Post by: John on February 20, 2006, 04:56:41 PM
Quote
limit the breed to \"blue\" eggs

The breed is really already limited to blue eggs even though it is only mentioned in the notes in the Standards, with the exception of the ABA disqualification.  Remember it doesn\'t just say blue, but also shades of blue and that can mean...well different things to different people.  I know that some would like to see a deep blue color and although that would be very pretty it is not the blue of a \"pure\" blue chicken egg.  I still maintain that when the inside and outside egg shell color is the same that is the desired color of a blue egg.    
It is good advise to not show females that may lay an off colored egg at a show and be an embarrasement to the breed.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 05:06:05 PM
Ok, define \"off color\".
  I don\'t own any that lay pink, yellow or purple eggs, although I\'ve heard (lol) that they exist.  No brown ones either, but I do have ugly olive green ones and they came from a Premier Breeder.  I think that you\'re going to really limit yourself here.  You\'re also going to have to depend on a subjective determination.
  Heaven knows, the judges can\'t even get together on weights, how are they going to get together on color?  You will be depending on the individual exhibitors to make the determination......hmmmm......I don\'t want to be the voice of doom, but I don\'t see it happening.  
  Again, would I show a great bird that layed an olive green egg?  Yes...I will and I have.  I don\'t see that as an \"embarrassment\" to the breed.  I see it as a work in process.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 07:04:31 PM
I purchased a set of gold laced wyandotte pullets their color and laceing is correct, one lays  a green egg,  instead of brown, i haven,t caught her yet as they are just starting to lay and it only happens every few days,  don,t you think that its  fair to sell chicks from her,  to me the off colored egg shows crossbreeding and i am not getting what i paid for,  
do you think that your ameraucana customers will be happy with olive green eggs out of pullets they raised from chicks, expecting a blue colored egg,
Title: Egg Color
Post by: bantamhill on February 20, 2006, 07:29:00 PM
Angela said something \"tongue and cheek\" about only showing cocks and cockerels . . . a note that has not been made in this entire discussion is the importance of the genes the cock is carrying related to color. Anyone wanting to improve shell color needs to test their male birds by crossing to a white shell laying breed and or keep track of the egg shell genetics of their male birds from hatch on.

I am less concerned about hatching from a hen of great type that lays a greenish or lightly tinted egg if I know the genetics of the cock bird in regard to shell color. That being said, also wouldn\'t show a hen that I was sure layed a non-blue tinted egg.

Just a friendly word of advise regarding the importance of the male bird in this discussion.

Michael

PS: I would also suggest that folks might want to cross from large fowl to bantam to improve shell color . . . then all you have to regain is size, which can be done quickly (2-3 generations!).
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 07:39:56 PM
You caught that, did ya?
  First of all, anyone who thinks that they are consistantly going to get lovely blue eggs from Ameraucanas, is delusional.
Again, THEY ARE A WORK IN PROGRESS!!  
  Yes, I like the pretty little blue eggs, but that is not the sum all of the breed.  You sell them short.  There are certainly other aspects of the breed of which to be concerned.
  The prettiest little blue eggs that I have from my \"pure-bred\" flock, actually came from a second generation leghorn cross.  Still have her....great broody!  
  As for my customers, they know better!
Title: Egg Color
Post by: John on February 20, 2006, 09:11:13 PM
Quote
do you think that your ameraucana customers will be happy with olive green eggs out of pullets they raised from chicks, expecting a blue colored egg,

No, but I don\'t know of any ABC members that sell chicks guaranteeing blue eggs.  It is like expecting chicks to grow into show quality birds.  If someone wants a show quality bird or one that lays a blue egg they have to buy an adult bird that is show quality and/or lays a blue egg.
Quote
pink, yellow or purple eggs

Those colors would all lead to a bird being disqualified, but maybe green is a \"shade\" of blue.  I know that a bird that lays a green egg has at least one gene for blue eggs.  If she is of excellent type I would no problem crossing her with a male that came from a nice \"blue\" egg.
 ;)This egg color topic always gets some replys!
   
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 09:20:48 PM
Common......aren\'t we having fun?
  I am!!  This is a great diversion for me while I\'m printing out shipping lables  for all the green eggs that I\'m selling....LOL
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 20, 2006, 11:05:28 PM
My thought on the subject is this.
If we want to be taken seriously we need to police ourselves from within.
If we have a nice bird, we need to decide if it is worth showing, after learning it has obvious flaws.
we teach our 4-Hers that plucking feathers is a no-no in showmanship, the reason is it makes a mockery of the show. if a white bird has a black feahter, or a black bird with a white one, it is a lie to pluck it out to hide a fault that could disqualify the bird, the proper proceidure it to NOT show the bird.
likewise, if the \"ameraucana\" looks nice, but lays kaki eggs, then in reality it is not an Ameraucana, no matter how nice it looks, there for should not be shown either.
I feel the general publick dosen\'t take us serously because we are all to quick to \"cheet\", and cover-up a flaw rather than be honest and say straight out, it\'s a work in progress, we haven\'t arrived yet.
Hiding flaws only brings mistrust on us all.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: John on February 21, 2006, 08:03:06 AM
Quote
I\'m printing out shipping lables for all the green eggs that I\'m selling

I love it...and am still laughing!
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 21, 2006, 10:35:29 AM
John, you know I\'m truly EVIL!
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 21, 2006, 10:46:59 AM
You may be laughing; it\'s healthy to laugh and I can laugh with you, but nonetheless,this is a VERY serious topic for me, as a new member. I hope to raise these birds not because they are cute ,have beards, or are pretty colors but because they lay Blue (shade of blue/blue tinted whatever!) eggs and I would hazard to guess that is the SOLE REASON most people are attracted to this breed.
I have experience with a breed of animal, Missouri FOXTROTTING Horses, that has a performance trait, FOXTROTTING, defined in the breed standard. The MFTHBA is having problems attracting new people to the breed, one of the main reasons being \"breeders\" selling horses to \"newbies\" that do not foxtrot (These breeders can be sued if ANY claim was made toward that fact). This breed closed their registery in \'84 and now any papered horse can show. There are other breeds of horses that have to individualy \"qualify\" for breeding and showing purposes by exibiting certain performance characteristics (like an Oldenburg). These people get TOP$, and the breed is growing well.
I seriously hope that we work towards showing ONLY those animals that satisfy all breed characteristics or we will have the same problem in attracting people to this breed. Breeding is ALWAYS a work in progress. How many millions of birds have been raised since people started working on this breed? How many  more do we need to go through before we can be held to our own definition?
 
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 21, 2006, 11:00:10 AM
OK, John......Laughter did not work, so you may want to difuse the situation.
But.....  My two cents (by the way, I\'m NOT new to the breed) I don\'t know anyone who is working \"against\" the breed standards diliberately, but recessive genes DO surface on occasion.  Generally these birds are culled, but sometimes, they are needed to complete a project.
  Egg color is a hidden trait, and in my mind it is secondary at this point.  That\'s MY opinion as a breeder and an exhibitor.  You don\'t have to agree.  As a matter of fact.....you go for it.  Somewhere down the line, your pretty little blue eggs will need the proper lacing and body type......I\'ll be there.
  Until then, I\'ll just have to learn to love \"olive drab\".
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 21, 2006, 11:52:06 PM
Quote from:
I hope to raise these birds not because they are cute ,have beards, or are pretty colors but because they lay Blue (shade of blue/blue tinted whatever!) eggs and I would hazard to guess that is the SOLE REASON most people are attracted to this breed.


I think it\'s a little bit of a stretch to ONLY be interested in this breed for a trait that is only mentioned in the INTRODUCTION in the standard- and is mentioned first as a \'pastel colored egg\'.  only later does it say a \'blue egg\'.  all of the things you think are NOT important- beards, colors,- ARE things that are actually being judged and are grounds for disqualification.  if egg color is your sole purpose, then you may be happier with Araucanas- they lay blue eggs already.  I had a beautiful pair who layed beautiful blue eggs- too bad they had no ear tufts! but I felt those were important, since they are mentioned as disqualifiers in the standard.

Quote from:
I have experience with a breed of animal, Missouri FOXTROTTING Horses, that has a performance trait, FOXTROTTING, defined in the breed standard.


and speaking of horses, the American Quarter Horse association has denied registration for decades to otherwise PUREBRED Quarter Horses SOLELY on the basis of \'too much white\'.  the Paint Horse breed exists because of this color-based exclusion.  and the AQHA has recently decided to stop denying horses for registration based only on their white content.  because color has no reflection on performance.

Quote from:
Breeding is ALWAYS a work in progress. How many millions of birds have been raised since people started working on this breed? How many  more do we need to go through before we can be held to our own definition?


obviously, we need to go through enough generations to get all of the parts right, not just the egg color.  because I am aware of NO source of Ameraucanas that can make that kind of offer/promise/guarantee.

 just like when we are buying our 4H lamb or pig the breeder never promises that they will have a perfect loin, a wide enough stance, or whatever else.  even if it does not end up being the definition of a perfect pig or lamb, that doesn\'t mean that it is \'cheating\' to take it to the show.  the judge is capable of deciding that animals fitness to be there.

I\'ve been disqualified for showing a pullet without enough beard.   :o  I\'ve never been DQ\'ed because the judge asked me how blue her eggs were.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 22, 2006, 09:56:24 AM
Well put....
  Besides,  just to show how contrary I really am.....I raise quarter horses AND paints!!

Hehehehehhehehe!
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 22, 2006, 11:51:38 AM
I would disagree that is well said as I was discussing the role of PERFORMANCE, when it is part of a breed standard, not COLOR in a breeders responsibllity. The future of any breed requires new membership/growth and the largest segment of that will not be SHOW people. Of all the people owning Ameraucanas now, how many do you think worry about being disqualified for not enough beard verses how many look for that blue egg every day?
I will stick by my previous observation that MOST people are attracted to this breed for the BLUE EGG and thus as breeders it is our responsibilty to only show those individuals we know meet the requirements. Otherwise we\'re just going for the \"win\" and doing nothing for the breed.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 22, 2006, 12:03:12 PM
Take a walk down memory lane......
  How do you think that Ameraucanas became a breed?  They are SHOWN to have specific physical characteristics.  Those are the facts.  There are a lot of us who do show, and we don\'t show eggs, except among ourselves.
  I will acknowledge that \"showing\" may soon be a thing of the past, but the breed characteristics remain the same.  
  The person with the red laced blue wyandottes, or whatever....has an ameraucana because it lays a blue egg...right?  According to your agument, even though it has no breed characteristics aside from laying a blue egg....it\'s an ameraucana.  You may want to re-think your position.
  Those who want just blue eggs, can easily buy runner ducks.  They lay blue eggs...at least mine do....or maybe.....they\'re Ameraucanas too!
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 22, 2006, 07:34:55 PM

Well, I for one enjoy the shows, and am all for breedding a great looking bird, however the pitt fall comes when folks sell their stock to unsuspecting 4-Hers and new breeders. They are paying top doallar for their new birds because we have encouraged them to see out a \"reputable\" breeder, and purchase stock form them.  I get numerous e-mails from folks who did just that only to revieve birds that would not breed thue, and just as bad, ones that had off spring that were fine looking, but the parents and off spring laid kacki/ brown and some cream colord eggs. (as much as I dislike the olive green ones, I have to say any green shows a blue gene is present.)
What I suggest highly it to inform your buyers that what they are purchasing are not Ameraucanas, if they are not breeding true, and don\'t lay a shade of blue in their eggs.  they are a \"work in progress\", and rather than have the breeders bad-mouthed by a new owner, because they didn\'t get what they expected, it is much bette to be honest, and I am sure you will find the new owners are eager to help in participate in making improvements..just practice honesty, sinserity,and helpfullness.  it goes a lot farther to build up the breed than deciet and cover-ups.
If a buyer knows up front what to expect, they are not as disapointed when things don\'t go fairy-book perfect.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 22, 2006, 11:23:53 PM
Don\'t you feel that educating yourself and the general public is more on point?  Seems like there is a tremendous amount of ignorance out there about this breed.
  Simply put, it is a hybrid.  It will occasionally throw non-standard characteristics including but not limited to non blue egg coloring.  There is not a reputable breeder alive that will guarantee perfect birds.  Just ask John or Mike....DUH!!
  What you are suggesting, is that none of us are breeding true Ameraucanas, and we are foisting sub-standard birds onto the public.   I truly resent your implications!  I have been beaten in exhibition by birds that I GAVE away to 4-h\'rs.  I\'m sure that I should be staked through the heart for my dastardly deeds!
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 23, 2006, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: Angela
I have been beaten in exhibition by birds that I GAVE away to 4-h\'rs.


I always consider it the highest compliment to have a bird or animal I sold to someone beat me at a show. It means I\'m doing the right thing, putting my good stock out there for other folks to work with. I don\'t sell culls to 4-H kids, I think they deserve the best birds/animals there are. My culls are either eaten or sold very cheaply to folks I am sure will not show them.  Just my two cents...
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 23, 2006, 01:29:28 PM
I\'ve never sold a chick to 4-Hers.  I always just let them pick from the batch.  If I\'ve taught them well, they pick the best.....which has left me with \"not the best\" for the last four or five years.
Education is the key.....learn more, and you can make more intelligent comments.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 25, 2006, 12:13:44 PM

Angela, I don\'t understand why you are feeling resentful,
I think the egg color is being taken a bit out of prpopration, as all traits are inportant, however None should be ignored.
I feel that the breed is worth perfecting, and constantly striving to make it better, but were it is lacking, I also think it best to be honest and say they have not \"arrived\" yet, and are a work in progress.
We have been working with ours for almost 8 years, 6 that we count as breeding years.
We know we have a long way yet to go, but have made progress.
We tag all of our birds, so unless they are purchased as eggs, theri is no doubt were they come from.  We don\'t sell any birds that are great show birds, when we do get some we keep some and trade for better breeding stock. the birds we sell are culls and crosses that are strictly for meat & eggs.
While I don\'t believe  anyone has a flock of totaly perfect birds, I have hear from folks that breeders like John and Paul, and I know from first hand experinace with Larry, that they tell buyers right up front what they ar selling. One girl laughed that she ones some of John\'s \"meat birds\", but she couldn\'t find any flaws in them.
True is any situation, one man\'s trash, (Or culls), is another\'s treasure.
but the problems arise when we puff up what we have, or represent it as something it isn\'t
the question at hand was breeding for blue eggs..which IS a trait of an Ameraucana, there for should be the goal of every breeder..the shade of blue is not set in stone, but it should still be a blue egg layer just the same.

 
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 25, 2006, 12:39:25 PM
  I think that everyone would do well to remember that the printed word has a mind of it\'s own.  What you write, it does not give me the benefit of you body language or tone, so I have to draw my own conclusions.
  I think that, at this point I have my opinions, and you have yours.  We\'ll leave it at that.
  Just remember,  when you\'re spouting deceit and coverup.....it\'s sounds kinda accusatory.  I\'ve never had that issue with anyone that I have dealt with in the last few years, and it makes me wonder why it\'s such a hot topic with you.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: bantamhill on February 25, 2006, 08:00:55 PM
Well, the egg color discussion has gotten to be pretty heated . . . let\'s all remember we are in this together and they are only chickens! I can actually understand all sides. I have had several people in this area complain about the egg shell color of Ameraucana\'s they have purchased from a lot of different breeders. They were disappointed because their mixed flock had in their opinion (or memory) a better colored egg, but they had gotten rid of all of those birds. I have had people make all kinds of claims about the color of the eggs they had in their mixed flock . . . either it is true or it isn\'t and the person is complaining because the egg shell color wasn\'t any better than what they had. Interestingly a lot of these folks are still running mixed pens . . .

I had one of those people express pointed disappointment that hatching eggs I had sold (delivered also) to them very cheaply because they were getting old and I simply didn\'t have the room to incubate them. I was up front on the age of the eggs (each egg was dated) and practically gave them away (in hindsight I should have) . . . I simply said I was sorry and I would be happy for them to pick up eggs this spring, because I wanted them to be happy. The reply was that it was okay . . . it really wasn\'t my fault. This is similar to another person who bought 16 chicks from me and got 15 cockerels and a pullet . . . he at least thought it was funny and absolutly terrible odds!

Now a story on myself and egg color. Last year when John was looking for folks to work on the lavender project I voluntered. I purchased a pair of lavender Old English. I picked two of the best type black bantam hens I had. As John can attest one of the hens laid a horribly ugly green egg . . . I sent John eggs and hatched my own from her and the other hen who laid very few eggs. This year as the pullets are beginning to lay it has been interesting to see that one of them lays a much better colored egg than her mother and one is laying a tan egg. I am not worried because any lavender chicks I get will be crossed back to black Ameraucana for type and I will pick up the color genes. Needless to say I have eliminated the hen in question from breeding this year. What fascinated me was that the color of a daughter could be better than that of her mother when crossed to a tan laying breed.

Let\'s all be at peace please!

Michael
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 25, 2006, 08:16:24 PM
Hugs and Kisses Michael......no worries, it just reminds me of why I\'ve always kept a low profile.... It\'s always better to keep silent and let people think you\'re stupid, then to open your mouth and prove them right.

See ya at the Cape
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Suz on February 26, 2006, 12:44:35 AM
Quote
I would like to suggest the ABC publish an official egg color chart.

Hi Will,

I think a color chart for blue eggs is a good idea.  It might help to compare each other\'s egg colors.  I have attempted to make an \"unofficial\" egg color chart.  Click here-  Ameraucana Egg Color Chart (http://www.frontiernet.net/~susiewinder/eggcolorchart.htm)

Susie
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 26, 2006, 07:42:14 PM

Well I don\'t mean to be offensive, and was not singling out anyone in paticular, but what I do see is an awful lot of puffing, so maybe that is a beter word than deciet, but to me = the same thing.
yes folks can learn to look at a bird to jusde it\'s quality, but when it comes to egg color, the need to know they can trust you to tell them, jsut because it is ok to show a bird not laying the right egg color, the same is true of feather flaws. I can\'t tell you hoe many folks pluck their feathers to \"Make\" them meet the standard...and I suppose if that was your only purpose to win, that may be well and good, but to better your own flock, and to better the breed, it is much better to cull them than to hid the flaw, as it will keep showing up in future generations, and maybe even worsen..minor flaws are ok, especially if that is your best, because as I already stated, one man\'s trash is another\'s treasure.
your cull mayb be far superiour to someone elses starter stock.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Suz on February 27, 2006, 04:01:58 PM
I discovered something interesting when I viewed the above-mentioned \"unofficial\" Ameraucana Egg Color Chart from another computer screen.  The bottom two rows have a green tint.  The computer screen that I made the chart with gave all of the colors a blue tint.

I have left the bottom two rows, not knowing how they will show up on other people\'s computers, but added (what I think) are some more blue shades.

Although there are several different shades of standard-bred Ameraucana eggs out there, I, too, would be interested in whether there is some type of consensus among ABC members and/or ruling by the ABC Board of Directors as to what shades of blue we are aiming for, if any, at this point.

Incidentally, this may be unreasonable to do over the internet because of the differences in how computer screens depict the shades.

Susie

P.S. and disclaimer: I can\'t pass the colorblind test for my driver\'s license. :o
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on February 27, 2006, 05:04:45 PM
Well I might as well hang myself now  :D,
I have some firm thoughts on egg color. I run an EE egg flock as well as having offical color breeding pens set up. I hatch out of the layer flock only to sell as easter eggers. I will only hatch the eggs in the breed pens that are a shade of blue. I came to this breed primarily because of a blue egg.  I have all colors from camo green (amer/dotte) to a light pale blue. I want to have a blue egg chicken and to honestly represent the breed which set in it\'s standard \"blue\" eggs.

I have not sold any \"show\" stock, yet, most of mine go to local egg flocks for pretty eggs. We are going to approach the 4-H and FFA leaders soon so the breed can get more coverage in our area.
Glenna
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 02, 2006, 02:04:28 PM
When showing color variations, it is most helpful to include something of a known color in the photo which allows for color comparison and adjustment.( When cataloging flowers, we used crayola crayons in red, yellow, blue). Let me see if I have a photo ...
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 02, 2006, 03:29:44 PM
This might help to see those various shades of blue....  ;)

For all of you interested in seeing on your computer screen as close as possible what stuff should look like printed or in real life, you should calibrate your monitor.  One of my means of livelihood is digital imaging software for event photographers, so I deal with color profiles and photo prints all the time.

Here are a few quick and easy ways to calibrate your monitor.  Here is one of the best calibration tools I\'ve found (and the standard version is free):

http://www.praxisoft.com/pages/support.downloads.html

Just download the WiziWYG application best suited for your particular operating system (Mac, Win 98/2000/ME, or Win XP), unzip and install it.  Go through the steps.  It will ask you to change your monitor settings for brightness and contrast as well as change out the gamma settings to bring your picture to as close to printed copy as possible.

After you run this and change your monitor, it may seem that it isn\'t right or you\'ve messed up.  Give it a few minutes to become accustomed to it (you have been looking at the other way for years probably and this is just totally wrong).  If after a little time has elapsed and you feel it\'s still not right, just run it again.

You can do the manual methods, which take a little more time and concentrated effort on your part.  If you\'d rather do it all by hand, Google has tons of links to pages explaining color profiles, how to adjust your monitor, etc.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 05:37:06 PM
Whew!  I guess you guys are having quite the discussion about egg color!  Guess I should visit more often.   ;)

Angela...I wonder if your customers will be laughing when they get those green eggs?  

Mom and Ozark Rose I have to agree with you...afterall blue eggs are what sets this breed apart, makes it unique and egg color should not be relegated to the back burner anymore than pea combs and muffs and beards should be ignored.  What would happen if one of our well known breeder/exhibitors showed up at the Nationals with Ameraucanas with no muffs and beards and said...\"oh what the heck...the rest of the bird looks really great and besides...its a work in progress\"?
I keep hearing this is a new breed, a work in progress but after 25 years the breed still doesn\'t have consistancy in egg color.  
Maybe its time to stop ignoring  this problem in the breed.

My question is the need for the continuing addition of brown egg layer genes to the Ameraucana gene pool....and just because some of us are concerned about egg color doesn\'t mean thats all we are breeding for BUT even if we were how is that any different than people who just breed for show type?  
Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black IMO.
I won\'t bore you with my by now well known rant about breeds ruined for the sake of show type. (its a pet peeve of mine)
The key to breeding any great specimen is to look at the whole picture....type, temprament, ability to thrive/hardiness, egg production and last but not least egg color.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 05:44:38 PM
Suz GREAT egg color chart!
This is something I hope the national breed club will adopt and vote on what colors we are suppose to be breeding for.  At least then we will have something tangible to aim for instead of all this vagueness
.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 06:30:03 PM
We all need to consider the number of views the 2 egg color posts have generated...this one has 694 views  nd the other one has 849.  
This is far greater than any of the other current topics.
This should be an obvious clue as to how much interest and importance there is to this topic.
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Suz on March 03, 2006, 06:57:16 PM
Vicky,

Good point.

Susie
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 08:03:10 PM
Again, my customers know better.....
  The fact that the standard calls for \"blue\" eggs has never been in question, and has been the goal for some time...  You guys aren\'t suddenly having an epiphany, as a matter of fact, you\'re beating a dead horse.   This issue been debated many times.  But, to insinuate that the value of this breed is determined by blue eggs is rediculous.  Do you not see the beauty of the bird?
  You can get blue eggs anywhere.....easter-eggers are a dime a dozen.  Show me perfect lacing on a standard blue Ameraucana, and I get all warm and fuzzy...I don\'t care what color eggs it lays.  
  You are not going to MAKE this breed lay blue eggs just because you want it too.  Let\'s see YOU breed a few generations of good type with consistant blue eggs, then preach to me about the standards.  
   Until then.....it\'s a work in progress.  Now, I have a show to go to in Pryor, I\'m taking my sub-standard Ameraucanas....wish me luck, or not.  
Title: Egg Color
Post by: John on March 03, 2006, 08:43:03 PM
Quote
wish me luck

OK, Good Luck! :)
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 09:04:34 PM
You rock, John!!
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 09:24:02 PM
Quote from: Angela

  The fact that the standard calls for \"blue\" eggs has never been in question, and has been the goal for some time...  You guys aren\'t suddenly having an epiphany, Sheesh!   :o
Who implied this was an epiphany?  I thought the purpose of forums was for discussion?
as a matter of fact, you\'re beating a dead horse. Too bad an important aspect of the breed is considered a \"dead horse\" issue and off limits for discussion.   This issue been debated many times. Well I for one wasn\'t debating rather expressing my opinion but apprently Angela you feel like you are the only one who can offer up their opinions here  But, to insinuate that the value of this breed is determined by blue eggs is rediculous. Please, what is riduiclous is your reaction... point out where that was said???? Do you not see the beauty of the bird?
  You can get blue eggs anywhere.....easter-eggers are a dime a dozen.  Show me perfect lacing on a standard blue Ameraucana, and I get all warm and fuzzy...I don\'t care what color eggs it lays. Well thats your choice and if some people prefer good birds and good egg color thats their choice.
  You are not going to MAKE this breed lay blue eggs just because you want it too.  Let\'s see YOU breed a few generations of good type with consistant blue eggs, then preach to me about the standards. Nobody was preaching to you Angela but what i\'d like to know is why are YOU are so fired up because some people don\'t agree with you? And if anybody is \"preaching\" in this thread you are
   Until then.....it\'s a work in progress.  Now, I have a show to go to in Pryor, I\'m taking my sub-standard Ameraucanas Nobody implied you or anybody else was breeding sub standard Ameraucanas....wish me luck, or not.  

I\'m outta here.  I don\'t need this.

Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 09:46:59 PM
I was going to snipe back, but it\'s just not worth it...
Title: Egg Color
Post by: Guest on March 03, 2006, 11:33:39 PM
Yep, this thread has definitely gotten pretty heated!

Title: Egg Color
Post by: John on March 04, 2006, 08:59:40 AM
Quote
Yep, this thread has definitely gotten pretty heated!

There comes a time when we should quit adding fuel to the fire.  This topic is now Locked.