Ameraucana Breeders Club

The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Housing, Health & Hatching => Topic started by: Sharon Yorks on January 31, 2013, 07:33:57 PM

Title: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 31, 2013, 07:33:57 PM
I know there has been a previous discussion on Frontline a while back, but I'd like to hear the latest on how well (or not) Frontline is working for everyone. Is it still recommended? Is there any affect on the hen's egg production or a drop in hatches? Do you have to wait to eat eggs...and any other questions that may be asked regarding the product. Whose all using it and how is it working out for you?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Max on February 01, 2013, 12:00:05 AM
I've been using it since Paul recommended it last September. The results were incredible!! I had a Blue Cochin Bantam that was ate up with thousands of mites. I sprayed a spot the size of my thumb nail above the vent and they began to die immediately. 24 hours later I couldn't find anything alive on him. I sprayed the entire flock and they have been mite free ever since. There were no after effects. None of the birds got sick and egg production was steady. There is no wait period because it doesn't enter the blood stream(so i've read). If it continues to be this effective then it is all i will use. Tip:  It is a lot easier to apply at night when the birds are calm. I use a head light on my forehead so I have both hands free.  ;)
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on February 01, 2013, 09:02:50 AM
Thanks, Max. Is it the same bottle you use on dogs or is it a different bottle. (Does the bottle have a picture of a dog or cat on it?) How long does it last on them and/or how often do you use it? And does it kill the eggs, too? I was told when using Sevin dust, you are suppose to dust them 3 times, 10 days apart so you can kill the entire cycle of eggs and all.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on February 01, 2013, 09:23:15 AM
I found this on the Twin City Poultry web site. Is there a waiting period before you can eat or hatch the eggs.

http://www.twincitypoultrysupplies.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=435

H-2-8 Frontline Spray 8.5 oz. IT"S BACK !
$34.95

Back in stock and ready to ship! Large Bottle 250 ml / 8.5 oz.

This is the one that everyone has been asking about for lice and mites.  Frontline kills fleas up to three months and ticks for one month. Recomended once a month if pet has fleas which may cause flea allergy dermatitis. Remains effective even after bathing, water immersion, or exposure to sunlight. Not recommended for poultry for the production of eggs or meat!
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: John on February 01, 2013, 09:25:11 AM
Quote
Is it the same bottle you use on dogs or is it a different bottle.
You can order it from Peter Brown at First State Vet Supply (http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/store2/insecticides/mites-and-fleas/) and follow his directions for application.

Quote
a previous discussion on Frontline a while back
http://ameraucana.org/forum/index.php?topic=199.0
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on February 01, 2013, 09:42:49 AM
Quote
Is it the same bottle you use on dogs or is it a different bottle.
You can order it from Peter Brown at First State Vet Supply (http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/store2/insecticides/mites-and-fleas/) and follow his directions for application.

Quote
a previous discussion on Frontline a while back
http://ameraucana.org/forum/index.php?topic=199.0

Thanks, John. I had seen this yesterday, but noticed is was a discussion from 2006. I was wanting a newer update on how it was working for everyone...and was also wanting to know more about it "before" I had to purchase it to get the directions for application.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Max on February 01, 2013, 10:15:11 AM
Yep, thats the stuff. The cheapest i've found it is at Jeffers pet.  $29.89

http://www.jefferspet.com/frontline-spray/camid/PET/cp/0028814/
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 01, 2013, 10:36:46 AM
Ivomec is cheaper and works very well.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: John on February 01, 2013, 10:37:24 AM
Quote
I was wanting a newer update
I know, but wanted to make the old discussion available for others to see what had been said.
Quote
I sprayed a spot the size of my thumb nail above the vent

I believe Peter suggests using an eye dropper. 
Quote
There is no wait period because it doesn't enter the blood stream(so i've read).

Max, Frontline is for dogs and I don't know of anyone other than Peter that gives instructions for using it on birds.  I've read the info that comes from Frontline about the product and think we just have to be careful about recommending it or even making claims about it.  When it come to eating the eggs of hens that have been treated I go by my 21 day rule and wait that long before eating the of eggs of treated hens.

Chicks hatch after 21 days, With some vaccines you shouldn't collect eggs to eat for 21 days, When you bring news birds onto your property it is best to quarantine them for 21 days, a hen serviced by a cock could produce fertile eggs for up to 21 days...
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Max on February 01, 2013, 11:26:22 AM
Good points John. Better to err on the side of safety.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: greeneggsandham on February 01, 2013, 09:22:49 PM
I don't know if I've been lucky or just blind, but I have not had a problem with either lice or mites.  I have looked for them on roosts at night like recommended and see nothing.
 I use DE in my hen houses.  The food grade DE.  I use the atomizer to disperse it in every crack and crevice, on the walls and on the roosts.  I usually only apply it three or four times a year.  The inside of the houses stay fairly dry, so it doesn't need to be reapplied often.  My hens like to dustbath alot also.  If you manage to rid the birds of them, I suggest using the DE in the house to keep them out.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on February 01, 2013, 11:51:22 PM
Very timely post. 

A couple of years ago I came home from a show and tossed a Trio of Buckeyes into a breeding pen by themselves.  About two weeks later the rooster started taking on this wet look and then started acting very larthegic.  I remember going out on a Thursday evening and saying, "Hang in their boy and I'll take you in Saturday, give you a nice bath, and see if I can figure out what's wrong with you."  Unfortunately, I found him dead Friday night.

Then about a week later I noticed one of the hens looking the same.  These birds were the offspring of the Ohio National Champion for some year (I'd have to go back and look at my records now cuz I don't remember) and the rooster that died was from the Dad or Brother or something of the Champion so I did NOT want to lose another one. 

So I take the bird inside the house to look it over good and give it a bath and all of a sudden I feel like I've got something crawling in my eyebrows, and on my ears, and such.  I look down and my hands are literally covered in hundreds - maybe thousands - of little mites.  Then hen was absolutely completely infested with them. 

Prior to that show I had never had any lice or mites on my place.  I've been trying to get rid of them ever since.  I've tried various Permethrin & Pyrethrin sprays.  That would seemingly knock the mites back a bit but never eliminate them.  I did learn that you can NOT wait 10 days between treatments like a lot of folks say and I recently read something online that says the mites will develop a resistance to the Permethrin/Pyrethrin.  My experience would concur with that conclusion.

I also tried Ivermectin Eprinex.  Again, knocked them back but did not eliminate them.  During my latest research at the same time I found the above info on Permethrin/Pyrethrins, I saw something that said they don't recommend Ivermectin because it takes an almost lethal dose to the chicken to do any good.

So I came across some sites that talked about other pesticides.  I don't recall all the names (I've got it written down somewhere) but I got some of them.  The main ingredient was the one you find in the "Spider Killer" bottles.  They worked better I think than the Permethrins but again, did not eliminate them.

So, I decided to try the Frontline.  I got the cheaper "Pronyl Max" at Wal-Mart.  It's about half the price of Frontline at the Co-Op and has the exact same ingredients.  Since I was being money conscious, I also got the one for the biggest dogs.  Like over 100 pounds.  I put 3-4 drops on each adult bird and it's been a week now and there is no sign of any mites at all.  Everything is dead.  That is a result that I never experienced with any of the other stuff.

Now, one last thing, I too was concerned about egg production and whether egg withdrawal is needed.  In my Google search "Frontline and Chickens", I came across one article by a scientist who laid out in detail why he believed there was no need to withdraw the eggs because the %% of Filopril (I think that's the active ingredient" would be so small that the harmful dosage to a human didn't even come close to being dangerous.

Some may recall that I called the national Poison Control Center a year or two ago and asked about Piperazine-17 and ingesting eggs and found the same thing.  So I've been eating the eggs and have had NO problems since.  Disclaimer:  That is a personal observation ONLY and can NOT be used in any way, shape, or form, as a legitimate authorization for eating eggs from any chicken treated with Frontline, Piperazine-17, or anything else.  Do so at your own risk!!!!!!

So, I'm gonna keep a close eye on the birds and am hoping that I have FINALLY gotten rid of the mites! 

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 02, 2013, 08:56:24 AM
Keep us up to date on that Royce.  It's good to know.   But the information they gave you about ivermectin was baloney.  I don't use the eprinex  - is that the variation where there is no withdrawal period?  If so it stands to reason it wouldn't be as effective.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: John on February 02, 2013, 09:51:14 AM
Quote
I put 3-4 drops on each adult bird and it's been a week now and there is no sign of any mites at all.
Same thing here.  I use an eyedropper, putting one drop on the back of the neck, one on near the saddle area and one below the vent.  It is a two person job.  We make sure the Frontline goes on the skin and sometimes give an extra drop to LF.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Beth C on February 03, 2013, 11:01:58 AM
Interesting discussion, particularly Royce's info on withdrawal periods.

Quote
Not recommended for poultry for the production of eggs or meat!

Manufacturers need to cover themselves when their products are used off-label. It doesn't  mean it's necessarily unsafe, just that it hasn't been tested & approved and they assume no responsibility for off-label use - you're on your own. We use a lot of off-label meds with goats, since there aren't very many that have been tested & approved (apparently we aren't a large enough share of the market to justify the expense).

For the same reason: not encouraging off-label use of insecticides and anyone who chooses to does so at their own risk.

I've personally been using a combination of Absorbine Ultra Shield EX and Frontline Spray. I alternate between the 2 in hopes of avoiding resistance. I've never used the vials of Frontline because I had heard there was an extra ingredient, but I just noticed that's the Frontline Plus, Fipronil appears to be the only active ingredient in the Top Spot, so may try that - certainly easier than spray and cheaper as well. The primary ingredient in the Ultra Shield is Permethrin, not sure why it works better than the Permethrin I've mix here to the same concentration, but I suspect it may be the addition of the synergist Piperonyl Butoxide. But whatever the reason, I've had better luck than with the straight Permethrin.

My "cooties" story was before my first show. I had several birds in one pen that looked awful, were losing weight, had ratty looking feathers, etc., and I was at a loss as to what to do. They were fed free choice and wormed and dusted regularly, so mites/lice weren't really on my radar. The morning I was leaving for the show I found several in bad shape & one died. The ones I was planning on showing, who were in a different pen, looked ok, but, fearing a horrible disease epidemic, I scratched everything and sent the dead one for a necropsy. I was mortified when they told me it died from a severe lice infestation - couldn't believe I didn't see it, but I really wasn't looking, since I *thought* I was treating/preventing (lesson learned - don't rely solely on dust), and in my inexperience I mistook the nits for dander (those birds hadn't finished moulting). It took about a month of weekly treatments to get them under control, then monthly for about a year. Now I treat quarterly.

Mike, I think I've ask you this before but I don't remember, how do you administer the Ivermectin? I keep the injectable on hand and give it to the goats & dogs orally. Do I put it in the chickens water like I do the Wazine, or spray them with Pour-On?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 03, 2013, 04:21:28 PM
Beth, I use the pour on Ivermectin for cattle and administer it with an eye dropper on the skin.   For a large fowl I place 2 or 3 drops above the vent and the same amount below the vent on the bare skin.  For bantams maybe 2 drops above and below.  I suppose it would be just as effective under the wing or on the back of the neck since it is absorbed into the system, but the vent area is where mites congregate, at least the ones we deal with here.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on February 03, 2013, 05:07:00 PM
Is this the product you are referring to, Mike? (The blue bottle?) And am I understanding that both this and Frontline would be administered the same...just open the bottle and put some in an eyedropper, then squeeze out a few drops per bird? What is the difference in products as far as why one would be preferred over the other. Is it price, ingredient, how often you have to use it, availability...?

How fast does this product work, how often do you use it, and where do you buy it?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on February 04, 2013, 03:47:32 AM
Keep us up to date on that Royce.  It's good to know.   But the information they gave you about ivermectin was baloney.  I don't use the eprinex  - is that the variation where there is no withdrawal period?  If so it stands to reason it wouldn't be as effective.

Will do, Mike.  it's been over a week now and still no sign of mites.  I am REALLY hoping and praying this will finally get rid of them potlickers once and for all.  I can say without a doubt this has been the most effective treatment yet. 

I'm not sure now whether what I read referred to the Ivermectin Pour-On or the Eprinex.  A Google search would probably turn it up again without much effort.  I can tell you from personal experience that after paying $50+ bucks for a bottle of Eprinex, I was disappointed as it did not do the trick at all.

And btw, Beth one of the things I tried was getting the Permethrin that's like 10%, if I remember right, and mixing it myself.  I was finally mixing like one ounce of the stuff to a gallon of water and that still didn't do the trick.  That's a whole lot stronger than the strongest stuff you can buy pre-mixed.

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 04, 2013, 09:07:13 AM
Is this the product you are referring to, Mike? (The blue bottle?) And am I understanding that both this and Frontline would be administered the same...just open the bottle and put some in an eyedropper, then squeeze out a few drops per bird? What is the difference in products as far as why one would be preferred over the other. Is it price, ingredient, how often you have to use it, availability...?

How fast does this product work, how often do you use it, and where do you buy it?

That looks like it, but I purchase it in much larger containers as we use it for the red deer several times a year.    From all reports Frontline works great too.   I use this because we keep it on hand anyway, and it works fast.  After a proper application you shouldn't see any live mites within 24 hours, and probably less.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on February 10, 2013, 10:22:47 PM
Update on my post...

Two weeks as of yesterday and still NO sign of any mites!  I'm elated!  I have NEVER had this kind of success in the past.  Prior to using the Pronyl (same as Frontline only much cheaper), I was never able to get rid of all the mites.  Even treating them on a weekly basis with all the aforementioned.

I will continue to check periodically but I'm jus tickled to death that it looks like I finally got the problem licked!

God Bless,

Royce
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Beth C on February 12, 2013, 10:43:15 AM
Great news, Royce! I remember what a nightmare it was trying to get rid of those little beasts.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Schroeder on February 12, 2013, 02:05:23 PM
Do mites and lice take the winter off if the chickens are regularly exposed to freezing temperatures, or are infestations consistent throughout the year?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 12, 2013, 02:59:19 PM
I found mites on a couple of my hens a week ago, so no, they don't take the winter off.   Duane, I sent you a private message regarding a meet placement.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: vanalpaca on February 12, 2013, 09:09:24 PM
I used tea tree oil drops in vaseline then dusted with a mixture of sevin dust and diatomateous earth, but that was for 5 hens that I originally had in town that came with a mite problem. They disappeared and never came back?

The ivermectin pour on for cattle is available at the farm/feed stores usually and at our Tractor Supply stores. It does come in a smaller $20 bottle or so. I use it a lot for worming the alpacas and preventative for menengeal worm carried by whitetail deer. It is also suggested for mild cases of mites in the alpacas which are fiber animals.....so it makes sense it would work for chickens.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on February 13, 2013, 09:57:35 PM
No, mites definitely don't take the winter off - even with subfreezing temps for a period.  Moreover, I read somewhere that they can go for like 6-9 months without even eating and make a come back!

Quick update:  Two and a half weeks gone by now.  Still no sign of any return!   ;D   

Now where is that jumpin' around Smiley?

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on February 27, 2013, 11:40:34 PM
Almost FIVE weeks now and still no sign of any bugs at all.  I am elated!   ;D

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on March 01, 2013, 04:38:55 PM
I actually have a negative report, but it could have been a fault of mine. On February 5th, I treated all of my birds with Frontline, putting a drop directly on the skin at the base of the neck, one at the base of the tail, and one around the vent area. After rereading John's post again, I realized he said 4 drops for LF. My rooster Thor had them pretty bad so I actually DID give him 4 drops the first time.

I was looking him over a couple of days ago (3 weeks after treatment) and found he had a lot of little red mites on his right shoulder again. An even larger area than before. We retreated again, this time making sure everyone got 4 drops directly on the skin and Thor and a couple of my larger birds got 5 drops. We also made sure to gently shake the bottle around before putting it into the eye dropper, just in case I didn't have it mixed up well enough the first time. I just now checked for an expiration date and can't find one, but it was a brand new bottle that I had just ordered so that shouldn't be an issue.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Birdcrazy on March 01, 2013, 05:12:04 PM
Sharon, You aroused my curiosity, I looked on my bottle of frontline that I just bought. there was no expiration date that I can find on it.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on March 01, 2013, 05:42:10 PM
I'm wanting to think I saw one somewhere, maybe on the clear plastic that was wrapped around it before I opened it, but I can't remember. I'm usually good about checking for things like that. I probably did, just don't remember. I'll check a new bottle at the pet store or at the poultry show this weekend to see if that's where it is...although that would be a stupid place to put one because you would never know when it was outdated after you opened it and forgot what it said. I'm sure I...okay, no I'm not. I'll find out where they put it and let you know.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on March 02, 2013, 03:12:42 AM
I didn't use the bottle type but rather the stuff that comes in a box and a pack of 3 "tubes" for dogs.  I got the "Pronyl" which is a knoeck off of Frontline but has exactly the same ingredients and percentages.  I also got the dosage for the largest dogs.  Over 100 pounds if I remember right.  So my dosage was probably stronger.

Still no mites.   ;D

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: dixieland on March 02, 2013, 03:30:38 PM
I looked through my binders from when I was the director at the Pharmacovigilence Call Center for Merck/ Merial:
Frontline DOES NOT have an expiration date. It is alleged to stay stable and safe as long as it is kept out of direct sunlight. Hence the colored vials and opaque bottles it is sold in. When a product is EPA mandated, like frontline is, an expiration date is not mandatory. I have put in a call to one of my old colleagues regarding withdrawl times for meat and eggs in poultry treated with frontline. I know that the withdrawl time is 21 days for poultry treated with any member of the ivermectin family.
I alternate my flocks between Frontline Spray and Ivomec Pour-On. Both products have had a well earned place in my animal husbandry toolbox for many years. I have been way overexposed to both products on multiple occasions including accidetal inhalation and ingestion. I do not glow in the dark, nor have I grown any extra fingers or toes. I am accused of being harsh and blunt by my family and co- workers, but I blame that on my overexposure to NYC during my formative years, lol!!!

Ok, back to the point: There is not one product that is going to provide the same results for all of us.....We are all raising our flocks in unique environments. The climate varies greatly from my place in Middle TN to the Smith's place outside of DFW to Royce in CA to Jean & Christina in WA state and so on and so on. It's important to keep n
otes on how well a product works for you and to share those results with fellow breeders....
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on March 03, 2013, 04:07:51 AM
Jes, your post cracked me up!  You sure you don't glow in the dark?  And having talked to a few folks in NYC from time to time, your excuse there is likely warranted!  One or two days of calling into there and I'm like, "What is it with these people?  I'm going to go work SC or something."

One slight correction to your post... I'm in WA with Jean and Christina.  And, if I remember right, none of the Ivermec products are authorized for poultry so since it's off-label use, it's usually pretty hard to get anyone to tell you anything about using it on poultry.  I've tried calling and never got anywhere.  I used to the Ivermec Eprinex and since it said there was no withdrawal period for milk or meat, I figured it was safe for eating eggs and chickens too, especially since it was likely a lot smaller dose.

Thus far I'm not glowing in the dark either.

God Bless,

Royce
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: dixieland on March 03, 2013, 05:17:45 AM
Sorry Royce,
     I thought you were hangin' ten near the Ocean in CA for some reason, lol!!!! Again they are both off label uses-- but I did work with the company for several years, so I am generally able to get off label data; like the withdrawl time for Ivomec in Poultry or vaccines sent directly to my vet....That job had and probably still has the best perks of any job I have had...
Have a great Lord's Day!
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on March 04, 2013, 01:03:27 AM
Jess, I forgot I read that.  We are very blessed to have your years of experience with Merck here with us. I'm quite sure now that you've let that cat out of the bag, I and probably some others will be bending your ear in the future.

And here I was thinking you're just an ol' Hillbilly Chicken Rancher!   ;)

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: dixieland on March 04, 2013, 08:15:02 PM
YyAt the end of the day, that's all I am.....Add Christian to the adjectives and you've covered the most I'm :-\
portant details.... ::)
But like any other Hillbilly Christian Chicken Rancher, I ha ve a past.....12 years worth running Pharmaco for Merial/ Merck and then Pfizer.....And I would not trade one minute of my past for my present/ future!!! Everything has worked out beyond super for me...That includes meeting and learning from all of you!!!!
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: jeeperspeepers-r4us on March 05, 2013, 09:26:05 PM
I've been using the Frontline for control of the N. fowl mites
my question is about the eggs that I see on the feathers.
It appears that its killing them off as they hatch, but how long will this process take? I've put the frontline on them twice now at 14 day intervals.
I have also been bathing the one that had it the worst in Adams flea & tic shampoo (not the plus label). That seem to last for about 3 weeks. at which time I put the frontline on.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: dixieland on March 06, 2013, 09:06:48 PM
Yvonne,
   Sounds like you are doing the right thing by the birds... Sounds like there is a life cycle of N Fowl Mites somewhere that your birds are exposed to....You might consider dusting their roosts with DE, pyrethrin powder or even Sevin dust... You could also add some of the aforementioned to a dust bath area for your birds...You are looking at 2-3 months to really get things under control..
Not sure where you are, but that will also factor into the time also..
Jes
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: jeeperspeepers-r4us on March 07, 2013, 12:01:46 AM
I'm in N. Florida, bugs here all year. We rarely get a frost let alone a hard freeze. 
I've read that some eggs can lay dormant for months. To bad we cannot put something on the birds that stop them from hatching.
Thanks for the advice, maybe I need to put the dust out more often
I use DE Viper (brand of Sevin) and Pyrethrin. I've thought about using Citronella oil in the cracks and crevasses.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Beth C on March 07, 2013, 07:00:26 AM
Just curious if anyone has tried or knows of anyone using Spinosad on or around birds? The guy at the local garden center recommended it for the stink bugs, but I haven't tried it yet. And when Frontline stopped working on the dogs, the vet switched them to Comfortis, which has Spinosad as the active ingredient. It is classified as organic, but haven't found any reference to it's use with regard to poultry. If it's working for resistant fleas, maybe it could be an option for resistant mites/lice?

*Edited* I found this, sounds encouraging:

http://www.mapress.com/zoosymposia/content/2011/v6/f/v006p282-287.pdf
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: jeeperspeepers-r4us on March 07, 2013, 10:51:22 PM
I found a Spinasad concentrate spray for gardens on Amazon. I'm going to spray it in the coops. Based on the artical it is good for red mites, hopfully it will work on NFM as well. From what I have read the main difference in the 2 is that the NFM stay on the bird and the Reds nest in cracks & crevasses and come out at night.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: John on March 14, 2013, 07:50:54 PM
It's been over 6 weeks since we went thru all the birds with Frontline.  Today was a beautiful day here in mid-Michigan with lots of sun, very little wind and a high in the upper 30s, so David and I moved the LF lavenders to a different coop to make room for started chicks.  Anyway, I figured it would be a good time to hit them again with Frontline and we did but the I was surprised that I didn't see one mite on any of the birds.  Maybe it lasts much longer than 30 days on chickens.
I spray it into an eyedropper bottle and use it from there on the birds.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on March 15, 2013, 08:24:14 AM
Over 7 weeks now and still NO mites!! 

I washed 16 birds today (well, actually it was yesterday now) for the show and no sign of anything.  Looked over a bunch of others when deciding which ones to take and nothing on them either.  I am one happy camper!

John, what's %% of Fipronil on that 8.5oz bottle that you have?  I believe it was about 10% on the Pronyl I got in the tubes.

God Bless,

Royce
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: greeneggsandham on March 15, 2013, 10:13:13 PM
Does anyone think the frontline spray would work on scaly leg mites? 
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Max on March 16, 2013, 12:05:35 AM

The last time I sprayed was November and still no mites...
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Beth C on March 16, 2013, 03:10:32 PM
I hit all of mine about 2 weeks ago but found no lice or mites on any of them. When I had that bad outbreak I was treating them once a week, then once a month, now I'm down to quarterly. I found a few last fall, not bad, and hit them hard. I'm hoping I'm ahead of them at this point and can stay there if I keep spraying. So far the UltraShield EX & Frontline are working, but I bought some Spinosad for my tomatoes (if this stuff kills stink bugs I'm buying stock in the company) and I may spray the coops, too, just to catch anything that might be resistant.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on March 16, 2013, 04:13:12 PM
When I had that bad outbreak I was treating them once a week, then once a month, now I'm down to quarterly.

You actually put the Frontline (how much?) on the birds once a week (for how long) and you didn't see any bad effects from it? I am having a terrible time trying to get rid of mites right now. I Frontlined all of my birds twice now and am still seeing signs of them. Yesterday I found scaley leg mites on one of my hens. I just Frontlined 5 drops on all of my birds 17 days ago and 3 weeks before that, plus dusted Sevin, too. Frontline does not appear to be working on my birds. I must have bionic mites here. I'm open to other suggestions. I just bought some Diatomaceous dirt so they can dust themselves, too. I will probably try the Ivermectin next.

Is this what I'm supposed to use and how much: IvomecĀ® (ivermectin) 1% Injection for Cattle & Swine, 50 ml

As far as the scaly leg, I read that putting Vaseline all over their legs will smother the mites. I coated and rubbed in a lot this morning. I'm going to keep researching this, but I had it on hand so I used it. 
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Beth C on March 16, 2013, 09:54:23 PM
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You actually put the Frontline (how much?) on the birds once a week (for how long) and you didn't see any bad effects from it?

Oops - should clarify that. I was treating with the UltraShield EX once a week. That was the year Frontline spray was a scarce as diamonds (remember when they changed the design of the bottle and ceased production for what seemed like and eternity?) so I used it very sparingly. What they are resistant to probably varies from one region to the next, but I've found dust to be totally inaffective on mine. DE, Sevin, Bengal dust, same result, just made them easier to see as they continued to crawl around in it days later.  >:( I'm still having good luck with Permethrin but sounds like people in other areas are seeing a lot of resistance. That's why I'm so interested in the Spinosad. It's too new for resistance yet, and as an added plus, it's considered organic. But I haven't found any info yet about applying it directly to the birds, only treating their environment.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: John on March 16, 2013, 10:29:15 PM
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I am having a terrible time trying to get rid of mites right now. I Frontlined all of my birds twice now and am still seeing signs of them.
Maybe use the Sevin, DE, and whatever in and on every crack and crevice you can find in the coop along with in any straw or hay that they may hide inside off.  I use straw on the floors in my coops because it is cheaper than wood shavings, but do use wood shavings with some DE or Sevin in the next boxes that the hens lay in.  I also powder the roosts with Sevin.  One reason I push for my 100% plastic nest boxes is because wood nest boxes have the "cracks & crevices" that mites and lice hide in until it is safe to climb back up on the birds.  Another plastic nest box uses the wall of the chicken coop for its back...a great place for mites to call home.  In the old days the farmers would "white wash" the walls to help seal up the wood.
I remember back about 45 years ago visiting the chicken coop at my cousin's place, up near Rose City.  Near the coop door (wood barn type lumber), about eye level there was something off-colored and about the size of my hand...as I got closer and studied it I could see it was thousands (?) of itty bitty bugs...lice, mites, I'm not sure but they weren't a pretty site.  Kind of like that old Brook Benton song about the Boll Weevil.."lookin' for a home".   
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Sharon Yorks on March 16, 2013, 11:05:51 PM
Yikes! My coop is 8x20 and is basically wall-to-wall straw with 11 pens and 17 hen boxes.  Talk about cracks and crevices. I guess I'll have to keep the nasty little critters at least whipped back until it warms up some and I can get all of the birds out (for more than just a few hours), strip the coop, and set off a dust bomb. I wonder if they make anything to kill mites like they do fleas with those smoke bomb things. I've heard Malathion is good for killing mites. I'm looking into that, trying to find some and read up on it. Sounds like some strong stuff. I was really hoping the Frontline would work and get the hiding ones when they decided to come out. I know it has helped, just doesn't seem to last very long and I'm a little afraid of using it too often.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Beth C on March 17, 2013, 09:34:25 AM
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I wonder if they make anything to kill mites like they do fleas with those smoke bomb things.

You may be one to something. The flea bombs I got from my vet were rated safe for my parrots as long as I removed them, food & water bowls, etc. same as the dogs & cat, and for the first few months after I put those things off even the pesky house flies were toes up in the window sill. Only thing with a chicken coop would be sealing it up enough for a fogger to work.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: John on March 17, 2013, 01:46:23 PM
I didn't even know "flea bombs" existed.  Maybe a tarp over the entire coop would help seal it.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: jeeperspeepers-r4us on March 24, 2013, 08:20:23 PM
I've been putting the Frontline on the birds to control the Northern Fowl mite.
and It has been working, I havn't been seeing anything moving on the skin. However there was a lot of egg attached to the feathers. So, good or bad last weeked I sprayed the Frontline on the feathers that had the eggs and squezzed (like a sponge). Today I'm proud to say no eggs. I'm also spraying the coops with the Spinosad garden spray. Glade to say it doen't have a chemical smell like Malathion. Egg production is up and all look healthy again.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on April 16, 2013, 04:29:40 AM
Three months now and no mites.  Can I start believing that they're gone for good now? ::)  After a couple of years of having to try and beat them down, and get rid of them, I just can't put into words how totally thrilled I am to have mite-free birds once again.  I so hope I never have to go through that again.

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: KalJen Farm on May 18, 2013, 03:36:39 PM
Forgive me if someone has already suggested this. I have found that dipping my birds in Adams flea and tick dip for cats and dogs does wonders. It doesn't kill the eggs, but it immediately kills any live ones crawling around on them. Its disturbing how many of those suckers you find floating in the water after you hip the bird in the clean rinsing bucket.......I just take whatever it is recommended for a cat and pour it in a 5 gallon tub of warm water. Dip the birds in that without letting their face fall in of course. Let them soak for a few seconds and then dip them a few times in another tub with clean warm water.
 I have a feeling the reason i am having lice problems is that i have had starlings overrun my barn loft the past 2 years......i should probably take care of that.....any ideas on how to get wild birds out of a poultry barn without harming the chickens?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Jean on May 19, 2013, 12:18:37 PM
Jensen,

It is really important to get the starlings out of your barn!  They can carry MG & MS and also they carry internal and external parasites.  You need to try and cover any holes with hardware cloth and shut any doors that are left open.  Runs can be covered with netting to prevent the starlings from getting in and birds of prey from getting your birds.

For lice, the best thing I have found is Absorbine Brand Ultrashield.  It comes in a black bottle and has natural and synthetic repellents.  It has a 17 day hold, so any lice that hatch during that 14 day period are killed or repelled.  You don't have to put it on the skin, so there should be no problems with egg withdrawal or overdosing and killing your birds.

I spray under each wing, the back of the neck and the butt fluff.  It works wonders and you shouldn't have a problem with lice if you spray your birds in a timely fashion for a month or so.  But, if you have birds coming in, you could get reinfested....  :(
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: KalJen Farm on May 19, 2013, 04:15:19 PM
Thank you for the info Jean. I am going to try and have dad destroy the nests today. The hard part is is that my birds are in a REALLY big 30 by 40 20 foot tall metal barn. they r making nests in the rafters. So it not like a really have this small coop or barn that i can just block out the doors. Hoping that after we destroy the nests and kill the chicks they will just leave. They are driving everyone nuts...the barn cats r even trying to climb up and get them! but perhaps closing up the barn completely for a few days would work. they have just been living in the barn these past few seasons so intently i hope it would be enough to keep them out. I really do't mind seeing a starling or two "Around" the barn...just don't want like...20 of them living and making what would be four or five nests.......not good. would moth balls dropped in their cleared nests keep them from rebuilding them next year?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on May 22, 2013, 06:35:07 AM
Four months now and still no mites and no follow up treatments since the one time.

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Schroeder on July 02, 2013, 01:26:37 PM
Jensen,

It is really important to get the starlings out of your barn!  They can carry MG & MS and also they carry internal and external parasites.  You need to try and cover any holes with hardware cloth and shut any doors that are left open.  Runs can be covered with netting to prevent the starlings from getting in and birds of prey from getting your birds.

For lice, the best thing I have found is Absorbine Brand Ultrashield.  It comes in a black bottle and has natural and synthetic repellents.  It has a 17 day hold, so any lice that hatch during that 14 day period are killed or repelled.  You don't have to put it on the skin, so there should be no problems with egg withdrawal or overdosing and killing your birds.

I spray under each wing, the back of the neck and the butt fluff.  It works wonders and you shouldn't have a problem with lice if you spray your birds in a timely fashion for a month or so.  But, if you have birds coming in, you could get reinfested....  :(

Jean, can you provide more details about your comment, "It works wonders and you shouldn't have a problem with lice if you spray your birds in a timely fashion for a month or so"?  I sprayed all of my birds with Ultrashield, as you describe.  How frequently do I need to reapply to make certain it has the desired effect.  I don't have a major infestation, but don't want to take any chances.
Duane
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Jean on July 02, 2013, 03:43:03 PM
I would spray again after the 17 days and then check everyone for bugs towards the end of the next 17 day period.  You probably will find none.
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on July 04, 2013, 03:06:46 AM
Every time I see this post come up I shudder!  I'm so afraid I'm gonna jinx myself. 

Over FIVE months now since the one single treatment and still NO bugs!   ;D

God Bless,
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: greeneggsandham on October 17, 2013, 05:03:16 PM
I looked through my binders from when I was the director at the Pharmacovigilence Call Center for Merck/ Merial:
Frontline DOES NOT have an expiration date. It is alleged to stay stable and safe as long as it is kept out of direct sunlight. Hence the colored vials and opaque bottles it is sold in. When a product is EPA mandated, like frontline is, an expiration date is not mandatory. I have put in a call to one of my old colleagues regarding withdrawl times for meat and eggs in poultry treated with frontline. I know that the withdrawl time is 21 days for poultry treated with any member of the ivermectin family.
I alternate my flocks between Frontline Spray and Ivomec Pour-On. Both products have had a well earned place in my animal husbandry toolbox for many years. I have been way overexposed to both products on multiple occasions including accidetal inhalation and ingestion. I do not glow in the dark, nor have I grown any extra fingers or toes. I am accused of being harsh and blunt by my family and co- workers, but I blame that on my overexposure to NYC during my formative years, lol!!!

Ok, back to the point: There is not one product that is going to provide the same results for all of us.....We are all raising our flocks in unique environments. The climate varies greatly from my place in Middle TN to the Smith's place outside of DFW to Royce in CA to Jean & Christina in WA state and so on and so on. It's important to keep n
otes on how well a product works for you and to share those results with fellow breeders....

Dixie, just wondering if you ever found out anything on withdrawal times for Frontline?
Title: Re: Frontline for mites and/or lice
Post by: Tailfeathers on October 18, 2013, 03:09:29 AM
Echo and Update...

Every time I see this post come up I shudder!  I'm so afraid I'm gonna jinx myself. 

Over NINE months now since the one single treatment and still NO bugs!   ;D

Btw, I'm in WA.  Been seeing several posts in various places about the "Super Mites".  The description of them is exactly what I had.  Can kill a bird in just a few days.  Don't migrate off the bird.  Don't always congregate around the vent only but on the tail, back of the neck, right above shanks, etc.  Resistant to Permethrins and Pyrethrins. 

The only thing I would add that I might not have before is that is imperative to treat ALL your birds at the same time.  It's a pain to spend several hours treating a couple hundred birds at one time but it beat the heck out of spending 3 years trying to get rid of them.

God Bless,