Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Ameraucana Marketplace => Topic started by: QUADCH on September 09, 2008, 11:17:46 PM
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Hi All,
First post here, usually just lurk. Hope you don\'t mind a question. One of my white chicks is tail less. Is that common? Does it mean its an Araucana cross?
Thanks
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Rumplessness is a dominant gene in Araucanas so your chick would need at least one of it\'s parents to also be rumpless, if the taillessness is genetic. Assuming that the parent has Araucana background would be a good bet. Where did you get your chicks?
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One of my white chicks is tail less
It may be tailless but not truly rumpless. Give it time if it is a chick.
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Could you post a picture? I have a few Ameraucanas look tail less. My Orpingtons never seem to get their tails till five months LOL.
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Thanks for the reply. I should stop calling them chicks, they are about 7 weeks old now. I hatched them from eggs bought from a reputable ABC breeder. Here are some pics. #1 normal tail, #2 tailless?, and #3 tail stump? Also can any one tell the sex on them yet? Thanks so much !
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There is more than one form of rumplessness (no tail). Plus this condition could have been caused by damage to the developing embryo. So far, #2 definitely looks rumpless, but #3 appears to have a short tail. Give them time.
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I have had a few of my birds come up slow to feather with the new rooster I am using.
Give the birds a little more time, the tails will come in, there is no araucana blood in them. I got my breeding stock from longstanding members of the club........
I think you will also find that the slow to feather birds are cockerels.
Jean :)
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I\'m wondering what the tail area looks like under the feathers. Is there still a little stubby place? Is that missing in the rumpless Araucanas?
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It isn\'t as simple as fully rumpless versus tailed. There can be all manner of intermediate forms as well. I have had Araucana bantams that are fully rumpless (the only kind I have now), fully tailed, some with one or two tail feathers, some with most but not all of a tail, etc., etc.
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Looks like your birds carry an autosomal recessive gene called tardy feathering. The tail feathers will eventually grow into a normal tail. I have had the gene show up in leghorns I have hatched and I have the gene in my Rhode Island Red.
Tim
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Tim,
That runs in the male chromosomes doesn\'t it???? If so, I will cull the current rooster I am using. As this is a new problem.
Thanks,
Jean
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Jean,
\"Autosomal\" means carried on a non-sexlink chromosome. So if this particular slow feathering is caused by an autosomal gene it would have had to been inherited from both parents (if recessive) or either parent (if dominant) to be manifested in the progeny. I can\'t find my Sellers print-out right now, but will get back later if I do find it.
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Thanks Mike for clearing that up for me. I hadn\'t had that until I started using my new cockerel, so I assumed he was the carrier.
See what happens when you assume things.....
Jean :)
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Okay, I found my Sellers genetics info. Rate of feathering is controlled by a sex-linked (not autosomal) gene symbolized as K. There are four possibilities at this allele. Small k designates the recessive gene that results in rapid feathering. Capital K
designates late feathering. K>s results in slower feathering than K, and K>n indicates Very slow feathering. This one results in bare patches on the backs of juvenile birds, especially males that are K>n, K>n (have two copies). The good news is that since rapid feathering (k) is recessive - once you have it in the pure form it will always be there and will not be lost. Desireable recessives are the easiests genes to segregate and retain.
Incidentally, the symbol for dominant rumplessness is Rp.
There is also recessive rumplessness symbolized as rp-2, and it is associated with a skeletal deformity called roachback.
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Thanks all, lots of good info.
Looks like your birds carry an autosomal recessive gene called tardy feathering. The tail feathers will eventually grow into a normal tail. I have had the gene show up in leghorns I have hatched and I have the gene in my Rhode Island Red.
Tim
Tim is this the same slow feathering gene that allows day old chicks to be sexed by wing feather length?
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No the tardy feathering gene is a different gene than the sex linked K gene. Sex linked traits are used to sex day old chicks. I have had birds that do not have tail feathers until they are over two months old. I want the slower feather growth in my birds. I am working on a barred rhode island red. Slower feather growth means better bars. White bars on a red back ground is a challenge and I need all the genetic help I can get.
Tim
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Okay, I found my Sellers genetics info.
Mike - can you provide the details on this book? I would like to get a copy. I work in the (human) genetics field and would like to learn more about my new friends, the chickens!
Thanks,
Danielle in Utah
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Try this site.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051207035940/marsa_sellers.tripod.com/geneticspages/page0.html
Tim
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:D Cool! Thanks!
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Tim,
The Sellers site lists four possibilities at the K locus, but I can\'t find anything about a \"tardy\" feathering gene. What is the symbol, and where can we read about it? Thanks.
Mike
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Tim,
The Sellers site lists four possibilities at the K locus, but I can\'t find anything about a \"tardy\" feathering gene. What is the symbol, and where can we read about it? Thanks.
Mike
Mike check out the Maran Genetics page at http://marans-club.club.fr/genetiqa.htm#genetiqa
It is a little hard to follow sometimes due to the translation from French, but it does discuss and give the symbols for the slow feathering alleles at K. Hope that is helpful.
Danielle in Utah (using Liz in Utah\'s computer ;))
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Danielle In Utah: Thanks for pointing me in the right direction for the t allele. That was interesting reading, and was new ground to plow for me. I came away with a newfound appreciation for the complexities of plumage development in the early stages of a chicks growth.
On the other hand, the section on shank and skin color is poorly written and innaccurate. For example, it says that birds that are Bl/Bl (splash) or wheaten must have clear colored legs. As Ameraucana breeders we know that to be untrue. It is true that the wheaten gene slows down the development of melanin pigment in the dermis, but it does eventually develop at anywhere from two to six weeks of age.
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Mike,
Jones and Hutt carried out a study and was published in 1946 concerning the tardy feathing gene. Warren also carried out studies in the 30\'s. The tardy gene is only expressed in birds that are rapid feathering.
Marans do not carry the dermal melanin gene like Ameraucana. Marans should have nice clean shanks and legs. I have never seen any studies on the effects of homozygous blue on dermal melanin but it stands to reason that two blue genes could inhibit epidermal melanin. Birds that are extended black (self black) normally have black shanks and feet. The blue genes do inhibit black pigment production so the legs would be clean because of the inhibition of eumelanin.
Tim
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Tim,
Nevertheless, melanin in the dermis shows through the transluscent epidermis. We have splash birds with slate legs, but they are not as dark as a black or a blue, as there is no melanin in the epidermis.
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The bird looked sparse in feather, but I never handled her to get a closer look. Here are some current photos. The tail feathers are coming in and wing feathers are normal.
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Pretty sure that\'s a him....
Jean
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Yes, your right, I meant him. The other cockerel is short tailed too. The pullet is normal feathered. A real cutie.