Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => News and Information => Topic started by: Susan Mouw on December 12, 2016, 11:12:01 AM
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The ABC is pleased to announce that our first pre-qualifying meet for the acceptance of self-blue was held this past weekend, in conjunction with our South Central District Meet, and was successful.
The breakdown in numbers were:
Cocks - 6
Hens - 6
Cockerels - 5
Pullets - 8
Congratulations and huge thank you to Paul Smith for getting this coordinated and successfully carried out!
The report has been submitted to Walt Leonard, Chmn of the APA Standards Committee
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Thanks to all who participated and competed by showing their Self-blue Ameraucana at the Shawnee meet. I do not raise that particular variety of Ameraucana, but this was a big step in getting the LF Self-blue recognized as a standard variety. This is just another example of the ABC moving forward to further the breed. Thanks Paul for coordinating this event and the positive outcome!
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A special thanks goes to (in exhibitor list order) Shannon Rowe, Howard Story and April Howington. The recognition process is a joint effort of many breeders of the self blue!
Now we must have one more pre-qualifying 4444 meet, no sooner than June 10 & 11, 2017 and no later than first part of Jan., 2018. Then we will be assigned a qualifying self blue meet which we will have to show 25 head equally distributed in the four classes C, H, K, P shown by a minimum of 5 APA members. Then one year later we will have to have another qualifying meet of 25 head with 5 exhibitors who are APA members. Anyone breeding self blue who wants to be eligible to help needs to join the APA.
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Paul,
I know that there are hurdles that have to be jumped through and those hurdles changed a couple of years ago. There were quite a few people who got really upset when the APA made the changes. We worked on getting the Black Copper Marans, Wheaten Marans, and White Marans accepted. People say that the old was was easier. I think they are thinking about the fact that back then, there was a requirement of exhibiting 2-2-2-2 rather than 4-4-4-4 that we have now. While that is easier, we had to have at least 50 birds shown at our Qualifying Meets. Either way, APA acceptance can be accomplished with work and planning. I appreciate all of the work that breeders did to get the process of acceptance started for the Self Blues.
Here at our place, we have all of the requirements to work on the Self Blues' APA acceptance except for the Self Blue Ameraucanas. I guess we may have to consider looking for a nice set of Self Blue Ameraucanas this spring. We could have them ready to show during the time span that you mentioned.
Be Blessed,
Ernie Haire
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I agree, Thanks to all that made the effort to get this meet put together and exhibit the birds to make the first step successful. Thanks Paul for making the date official and trying to put together the breeders in the area. I look forward to hearing the results from the show. I hope 2XL can get some stock and help in the shows in that region too. The more breeders usually means more progress on the variety.
It sounds like we just need to agree on the date for the next Pre-qualifying meet so everyone can start hatching and mark the date on their calendar. Any suggestions Paul?
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I thought that you needed 5 breeders who have bred the qualifying birds for at least 5 years and had to be members of the APA for 5 years and signed an affidavit that is what they had done. Plus it had to be those 5 breeders to exhibit to be qualifying. Did I read something incorrect?
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I think that you have to have breeders who have been members of the APA for five years sign the paperwork that they have been breeding that specific breed and variety to get the ball rolling. Those five breeders are not the only ones who can show in the 4-4-4-4 shows, Pre-Qualifying Meet, or Qualifying Meet. This is the way that I understood it and the way it was when we worked on gaining the acceptance of the Black Copper, Wheaten, and White Marans. We helped the Marans Chicken Club USA last year by taking Blue Wheaten Marans to a 4-4-4-4. We have breed them for years, but we have never signed anything for the APA on that variety. Someone who has seen the latest requirements can correct me if I am not correct.
Be Blessed,
Ernie Haire
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Ernie,
It was a relief to meet the quota, and a bigger one to find out we only need 25 at the two qualifying meets! This will be doable, of course depending on where the APA sets it!
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Don,
I plan to give Jean Ribbeck a chance to come up with the next pre-qualifying meet of 4444 which has to be between June 11, 2017 and early Jan. 2018. My safety net, for the acceptance of the self blue is "The Bluebonnet Classic" at College Station, Texas on Jan. 6, 2018 for the other 4444, if Jean doesn't manage to get it done first! I realize this will be a Texas only show. The four who showed self blue at the SC district meet in Shawnee, OK. were all from Texas. According to what I was told the 4444 pre-qualifying meets don't have a minimum number of exhibitors but the more the better! The qualifying meets have a requirement of a minimum of 5 and all 5 must be APA members before the show.
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Harry,
You are partially correct. We already have the 5 ABC members who have signed the affidavits that they have bred self blues for at least 5 years and have been a member of the APA for the five years. These same five self blue breeders are not required to be the 5 APA members who show at the two qualifying meets. I checked on this several months ago. If it was that the five of us had to be the same five-it would never happen as the five are scattered from Washington, California, Texas and Ontario, Canada.
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That was one reason I was not interested in showing them. I have had them for 10 years since I have one original strain of LF unrelated to the other breeder that has another strain. I was not a member of APA for 5 years but if you are right I waisted my money joining the APA for the last 3-4 years. Was under the impression it had to be the 5 members that needed to show. Thanks for the insight.
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Paul,
We just have to focus on getting all of the requirements completed before requesting a Qualifying Meet. We can take it one step at a time. We have been involved in helping gain APA acceptance of three different Marans varieties.
The Black Coppers had their Qualifying Meet at the show in Newnan, Georgia in January of 2011. Later that same year, the Wheatens were accepted after their Qualifying Meet in Crossroads, Indianna.
We were focusing on Cuckoo Marans in 2013. We had completed all of the 2-2-2-2 shows that were required and thought that we might be ready to request a Qualifying Meet. Many of us met in Newnan, Georgia to bring the Cuckoos together and see where we were. After taking one look at all of the Cuckoos there, we all knew that was going to be a wreck. All of the different Cuckoos from different parts of the country were very different in type and color. We scratched that idea and decided to focus on another variety that had met the 2-2-2-2 requirement.
Later in January or February of 2013we decided to try for a Qualifying Meet for the White Marans. We requested a Qualifying Meet be held later that year at Shawnee for the White Marans. The APA approved it and we began focusing on that show for the Whites. We had a nice line of White Marans here in East Texas so we bred and hatched that spring. We were blessed with good hatches and live rates.
As you know, Shawnee is in December. Due to the weather and not knowing about our friends' traveling conditions from Pennsylvania, Ohio, and other northern states. We agreed to tote the load for the Qualifying Meet. Peggy Taylor had sickness in her family and could not go to Shawnee, but she brought her White Marans to me. When my trailer left East Texas, we had 51 White Marans in it. We had a nice mix of pullets, cockerels, hens and cocks in the trailer. Thankfully, there was an exhibitor there from Ohio that brought a trio of White Marans. She and her daughter got their birds cleaned up and helped us clean up 51 White Marans that had been overcrowded on my trailer for 6 hours. Without her and her daughter, we would have never got them all cleaned up. Due to the weather, we had breeders from Pennsylvania and Ohio that were not able to get to Shawnee. There were a few more White Marans from Texas and a pair from Oklahoma. I think that there were 63 White Marans that actually made it to the Qualifying Meet and we judge recommended them for acceptance. The APA approved them in January of 2014 just in time for us to win BV, BB, and Best Continental at the Ft Worth Exposition and Livestock Show with a White Marans pullet.
I am sharing all of this to say that if we have to car-pool to the Qualifying Meet for the Self Blue Ameraucanas, we can make that happen.
Be Blessed,
Ernie Haire
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If I understand correctly we will only need 25 self blues at two qualifying meets shown by a minimum of 5 members of the APA. This should make it less difficult than the 50 head at one show.
Harry, now all of our self blue are descendants of your original start. They came from Jean Ribbeck and Cindy Aultman who purchased hatching eggs. All of ours from John have been eliminated. You have four years head start on us, but we have shared them with a lot of people through out the US. The three other exhibitors of self blue at the pre-qualifying meet all had purchased self blues from Angela & I in the past. Ernie they were all very similar in type and color but not condition, as most were removed from breeding pens/cages to be taken to the show to meet the quota.
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Paul,
The most upsetting thing about the new APA Requirements is that they did not grandfather anything in that had finished the 2-2-2-2 requirement. Regardless to where breeds and/or varieties were in the process of gaining acceptance, everything started over at step one.
Going from 2-2-2-2 to 4-4-4-4 made it a little more difficult. It will be much easier to get 25 birds to a Qualitying Meet than it was to get 50 there. Even if we have to car pool to the Qualifying Meet, it will be doable.
Be Blessed,
Ernie Haire
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I see that as being unfair and the full refund to the breed club should be made.
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If I understand correctly we will only need 25 self blues at two qualifying meets shown by a minimum of 5 members of the APA. This should make it less difficult than the 50 head at one show.
Harry, now all of our self blue are descendants of your original start. They came from Jean Ribbeck and Cindy Aultman who purchased hatching eggs. All of ours from John have been eliminated. You have four years head start on us, but we have shared them with a lot of people through out the US. The three other exhibitors of self blue at the pre-qualifying meet all had purchased self blues from Angela & I in the past. Ernie they were all very similar in type and color but not condition, as most were removed from breeding pens/cages to be taken to the show to meet the quota.
Paul, I'm sorry if this the wrong thread for this, but I am curious... why did you eliminate that line of self blues? I ask because I received a group of chicks from the same source this year and ended up culling almost the entire lot and wanted to know if you had similar issues? I kept a pair, but I am still not entirely thrilled with them...
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Paul I have a question for you. Did Cindy Aultman start her own line of Self Blues or did she buy from someone? I'm just curious because my Self Blues came from her. This is a variety that I have that I never researched their background before. I also never added any other lines into them except Blacks from Clif this year. Thanks.
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DeWayne Edgin, Cindy Aultman got her start from some cheap eggs I sold her in either 2007 or 2008. I sold them to people to try and promote the color but unfortunately everyone was cashing in on my work so I stopped selling to people.
The same thing happened to me with the lavender Orpingtons and lavender Araucanas by one individual who said he created them.
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Cindy Aultman also started with eggs from Jean Ribbeck, who got her start from Harry. Jean sent me a photo of a self blue that she started with. I think Jean said she purchased him from Christina Korfus. Cindy Aultman and I split a partial box of self blue chicks from John Blehm. I think Cindy quit the birds later that same year.
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Paul, yes Christina Korfus got two cockerels from me in Lavender Ameraucanas. She also got eggs that were Orpingtons but can't remember the color may have been whites/cuckoos.
Cindy had her birds for several years before she quit. I think she sold the original birds to some one.
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Thanks Harry and Paul! I got a Lavender Rooster from Cindy, three Lavender hens and a Black hen to. She said the Black hen came from John but I never used her. I sold the Black hen and I still have the Lavender Rooster. I bred from the Lavenders and kept a few pullets the following year and I still have them old girls. This year I bred them to a Black Rooster that I raised from Clif. I had 40 splits here but I lost a few and there are 30 some right now that I'm growing out. I never really knew the background on my birds till now and it is interesting to learn about it. So basically Harry's birds went to Texas from PA and I bought some from Cindy and they came back to PA to me. Kinda funny to look at it that way I guess. I have learned a ton of history on these Ameraucanas and I hope to make history on a few birds before I pass or sell for whatever reason may come up. Thanks again gentleman.
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Don,
I plan to give Jean Ribbeck a chance to come up with the next pre-qualifying meet of 4444 which has to be between June 11, 2017 and early Jan. 2018. My safety net, for the acceptance of the self blue is "The Bluebonnet Classic" at College Station, Texas on Jan. 6, 2018 for the other 4444, if Jean doesn't manage to get it done first! I realize this will be a Texas only show. The four who showed self blue at the SC district meet in Shawnee, OK. were all from Texas. According to what I was told the 4444 pre-qualifying meets don't have a minimum number of exhibitors but the more the better! The qualifying meets have a requirement of a minimum of 5 and all 5 must be APA members before the show.
Jean, What show do you think might work well for the next pre-qualifying meet?
I guess it couldn't hurt to have several shows where we had a large turn out of the Color to demonstrate their popularity, maybe even have a good number of bantams too. What shows do you think might work for your area Paul?
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Shawnee, OK.; College Station, Tex.; Ft. Worth, Tex.; and possibly Comanche, Tex. We will need it to be late in the year to get the cocks and hens in show shape. Shawnee is 2nd weekend in Dec.; College Station-first Saturday in Jan.; Ft. Worth,-2nd or 3rd weekend in Jan. (this one changes weekends due to splitting the show Jr. or open); Comanche 2nd weekend in Feb.
We must have one more successful 4444 meet between June 10, 2017 and early Jan. 2018 to meet APA requirements.
The date requirements only leave Shawnee, OK. and College Station, Tex. Since Shawnee was our first 4444 pre-qualifying meet, I don't know if it is eligible for the 2nd pre-qualifying meet. If not, that leaves only College Station!
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Here are a few pictures I took today of two of my 2014 hatch hens. They are still laying and it was a very windy day here today so their feathers where blowing around. These hens are ones that I hatched after I got my birds from Cindy. Give me your thoughts on them please.
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Here are a few pictures I took today of two of my 2014 hatch hens. They are still laying and it was a very windy day here today so their feathers where blowing around. These hens are ones that I hatched after I got my birds from Cindy. Give me your thoughts on them please.
Very nice, DeWayne!
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Thanks Susan.
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DeWayne, you have some nice birds to work with there for sure. How many did you raise this season? Are all of these from one mating, SB/SB? Are those some splits as well? I hope you have some of these to share for some other breeders this spring. The only thing that I can say from the photos, wind aside, I would watch the fluff on the SBs. With birds like we are seeing recently on the Forum we should be seeing a lot more of this color at the shows. It's time the Self Blues compete directly for Best of Breed and not just Best AOV.
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Don these two hens where hatched back in 2014 and their parents where both Self Blues. I hatched 40 chicks from them a couple months ago but they are all splits from a Black Rooster. I have a couple Self Blues that are younger but I didn't get pictures of them because they was free ranging in the woods when I toke these pictures. They aren't as fluffy as these 2 are either. My egg color on these birds needs improvement that's why I made splits plus other things as well. The fluff should get some help also from these splits I hatched. I'm down to 30 couple splits to pick from now but they are way to small to do anymore culling just yet. After I use them, they will all go out of my flock so there is no chance of a mixed up mating. Since my egg color went down hill, I sold off my SB cockerels to the Amish because I didn't want them influencing my egg color. I hope to have the egg color corrected in 2018 in the fall. We all know there is always things to improve on our birds and there is always a way with help from fellow breeders. I hope everyone has a great 2017 hatch season as well.