Ameraucana Breeders Club

The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Housing, Health & Hatching => Topic started by: Sharon Yorks on January 02, 2012, 01:40:18 PM

Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 02, 2012, 01:40:18 PM
I noticed last night that one of my 16 month-old hens had a large ball-shaped crop, so being fairly new at this, I tried searching the Internet for answers. I gather that this is somewhat normal at night, but it didn’t go away by morning like most of the articles said, so now I am a bit concerned that it could be a soured crop (or impacted) that won’t pass on its own. If someone could help shed some light on this, I would really appreciate it. This is what I have done so far:

I’ve taken her food away and put her in a pen by herself, hoping her body would digest more of it. I’ve massaged the lump (it’s a little squishy but firmer than I think it should be – not sure) several times. I just took her out a food mixture of: 4 tbs of plain non-fat yogurt, 1 tbs of apple cider vinegar, & 1 raw egg. I mixed that together. It was a little runny, but after I sprinkled the top with little pieces of egg shells, she dove right in and kept eating. I figured the vinegar and yogurt would help with digestion and the egg would help give her some nutrition and pass easy.

What else can I do? And please tell me if I shouldn’t do what I am doing. She acts okay as far as not being lethargic - I caught it soon, but she sometimes makes a funny neck movement like she’s trying to move the lump or it’s uncomfortable. Any thoughts?

Sharon
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 02, 2012, 06:07:02 PM
Yeah, I\'ve had some experience with impacted or sour crops.  I\'ve done two successful crop surgeries over the last few years also.

First, I\'d make sure she is able to pass food.  Are her droppings sufficient and normal?  Is she losing weight? If her droppings are fine and not losing weight, she likely will be just fine. I have some hens that have what seems to be a permanent mass about golf ball size in their crops.  Seems to feel like dough or clay.  This doesn\'t seem to bother them and they tend to localize the mass and carry on.  

Now, if your hen is losing weight and her crop is the size of a softball and feels like it is full of liquid that doesn\'t go down overnight, that could mean a blockage.  I haven\'t had much success with removing blockages except with surgery.  If there is not any liquid sitting around in the crop, then you could try to break up that doughy mass over time.  You could also try putting a little mineral oil in the crop, then massaging.  Her neck movements do mean that she is trying to move that mass or localize it and get it out of the way.  
If it doesn\'t feel like clay or doughy, it is likely wadded grass or hay, straw, feather\'s, etc., and you can tell by feeling it.  That\'s not likely to pass.  

If she is blocked somewhere further down the line, there isn\'t much you can do except try to get plenty of liquids in her to hopefully move the blockage.  I had a cockeral once with a lower intestinal blockage.  I kept filling his crop with liquids (crop tube) to keep his strength up and after a week this mass was protruding out the other end, which I had to help birth.  About 8 inches of wadded hay came out.  Needless to say, I no longer raise young ones on hay yet I still get one every year that finds something to block them up.  I think I\'m going to increase the feeders in the grow out pen this year and see if it helps.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Mike Gilbert on January 02, 2012, 06:15:24 PM
I don\'t think I have ever had to deal with this problem.  But then I always make sure they have free choice granite grit in front of them, which is needed to grind the food.   Sharon, I don\'t think you have much choice except surgery as described above if the crop does not reduce in size over night.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 02, 2012, 07:13:51 PM
The lump is about the size of an orange and is more squishy now than it was this morning. Maybe because I\'ve been massaging it a lot. But it hasn\'t gone down any. All she\'s had to eat (I took all of her food away) all day is the liquid yogurt combo I made her this morning and a little more later this afternoon with a little olive oil in it. Would olive oil work the same as mineral oil, and if so, do you just squirt it (how much) down there throat? It\'s snowing real bad right now or I\'d go get some mineral oil.

Her dropping have been very minimal today. This just started a day or two ago, so I caught it very quick. She hasn\'t lost any weight (she\'s the largest and heaviest hen I have) and acts fairly normal. She didn\'t lay today. She IS drinking water. Did you do the surgery for this? What\'s the procedure? Have you ever heard of leaning them forward and trying to work the stuff up and out of their mouth? If you are real familiar with this, maybe (if you wouldn\'t mind) I can talk to you tomorrow on the phone if she isn\'t doing any better. I REALLY don\'t want to lose this one.

Sharon  
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: jeeperspeepers-r4us on January 02, 2012, 07:50:13 PM
I have had 2 hens do this, The first ate hay and had a compacted crop, I did surgery and pulled out 2 lb of wet hay. It would have never gone through her. The crop was hard like a tennis ball She recovered very nice. The 2nd had  squishy crop caused by ph imbalance, I mineral oiled her over & over, to keep food moving. I gave her everything to change the ph that was suggested to do. I also drained it by tubing her over & over.  I read on another site to withhold food for 3 day and then put on yogurt only. Every thing I did was to no avail. The crop was huge everyime I let her eat. It stretched out and would not go back to the orginal size. I made a crop bra to hold it up.I think she ate a mouse that caused the problem.
She never recovered to be productive again.
What ever you do, do it quickly, so that it doen\'t stretch out and not go back to size.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 02, 2012, 08:30:15 PM
Well, can you feel a solid mass in her crop or is it all squishy liquid?  Squishy with no mass, I would try jeepers suggestion for a few days.  The feed is likely fermenting in her crop because it can\'t pass.  You can empty the crop and try the remedy for restoring ph, but I\'d have to tell you how I empty it and some people would advise against it.  But I agree with jeepers, don\'t let that crop get too stretched out.  
And I use a crop tube to dispense liquid in their crops.  I would be hesitant to try squirting anything down any other way or it could go in their lungs.  That airway opening is somewhere in that beak.  I\'m not sure where.  Someone else may be able to advise with that.   You can pm me if you want to discuss it.  I see if I can find the site with crop surgery help also.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 02, 2012, 08:56:39 PM
Now here is a thread on how to handle an impacted crop without surgery.  If the mass in her crop feels doughy, it might work.  If it feels like wadded up hay or grass, it may not work.  Also, you will not be able to expel the wad via her beak, only sour feed will come out that way.  Anyway, I suggest flushing out her crop prior to trying this treatment.  You have to have a crop tube or a syringe that you can get down her throat though to dispense the liquid.  The feed is likely thick and sour and what you are going to do is liquify it so it can be removed easily.  If their method doesn\'t get rid of all the squishy stuff,  email me and I\'ll tell you my method.

http://happyhenhouse.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=natural&action=display&thread=5257
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 02, 2012, 09:03:46 PM
It\'s a lot more squishier now. This morning it was firm and like a soft ball toward the right. Now it more like a double handful of mush, more in the center. I got to thinking about having penned her up by herself this morning in a 2.5 x 5 pen. I\'m thinking maybe it would have be better if she moved around to help pass it. I brought her into my garage so she could walk around. She did a little, but no poop. I turned her upside down to see if she had any blockages...you know, under there. No blockages, but she threw up all down my leg. It looked like the yogurt she ate today. She didn\'t gag or anything, so I don\'t think it hurt her or got into her lungs. I watched a few crop surgeries on Youtube. I could do that if I needed to, but I\'m thinking it\'s more like sour crop or something of that nature. If it isn\'t down in the morning... at least more than it is now, I\'ll give her some oil and get her to moving more. I\'m not sure if I should start her on antibiotics or not. Some sites say this (if its sour crop) can turn into an infection and/or be caused by one.  --Sharon
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 02, 2012, 09:08:59 PM
Thanks for the flushing information. I didn\'t see your post until after I posted mine. Where do I get a crop tube? Is that something TSC would have?

Sharon
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 02, 2012, 10:16:26 PM
Well, that\'s good that her crop somewhat emptied, even if it was accidently.  Does it smell sour or like bread?  That\'s what I was going to recommend, turn her upside down and gently squeeze to empty it.  But you have to do it correctly or it could get in her lungs.  Her breast should be toward you, head down, and you can\'t keep them upside down and the food flowing for more than 10 seconds.  Then turn her up and let her catch her breath.  Then repeat.  Just do it a few times and let her rest.  When the squishy stuff is out you should be able to tell if there is a mass in there or not.  If she is blocked somewhere, crop or otherwise, she will continue to \"fill up\" her crop and it won\'t empty overnight.
Sharon I\'m not sure where to get a crop tube.  Someone else on here might know.  I improvised.  I had some IV tubing here at the house and made one out of that.  It works great with a small syringe.  From what I have read, some use a small syringe and put it far back in the beak down the crop opening which is on the left corner of the chickens mouth IF the chicken is FACING YOU.  I have my hubby hold the chicken and gently straighten  the neck a bit while he holds the head and I open the beak with one hand while inserting the tube with the other.  Keep a hold of the tube and chickens head or they can shake it out.  Then I insert the liquid with a syringe via the tube.  If you have a vet who knows you, you might be able to get them to sell you the IV tubing.  I had a cat I had to administer fluids to, so I had plenty of the fluid bags and IV tubing here.  They are usually packaged separately.  
Oh, and I wouldn\'t do the antibiotics just yet.  You may have to do surgery and then you will need antibiotics.  First thing you need to determine is if she has a blockage somewhere or not.  Sour crops usually happen because of a blockage.  So I would treat for sour crop first, see if that helps.  If it continues, she is blocked somewhere.  If it\'s in the crop you will be able to feel it.  If not and it\'s further down, nothing to do but try to flush it out by giving her lots of liquids, olive oil, etc., to lubricate the blockage.  Hopefully, some of the liquid would be able to pass through.
If you do surgery, I can give you a few tips.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 02, 2012, 10:47:46 PM
Sounds like I might need to treat this somewhat like colic. I\'ve had horses do that and we tubed them. I\'m sure I can find a tube that will work. I think I\'m getting a better grasp of the situation with all of the great advice given. My girls are so great to work with. Ha! I may even try giving her an enema  :stare: I bet you\'d like to hear how that turns out! I\'ll keep you updated.

Hopefully this post may help others recognize issues if it happens to them. I\'m very thankful for this forum and everyone who tries to help.  

Sharon  
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Tailfeathers on January 02, 2012, 11:26:02 PM
Greeneggs has pretty much covered all the bases.  I just wanted to add a couple of things.  I have run into this a couple of times.  Tried surgery once but I think the bird wound up dying.  Now I just try turning them upside down and letting them spit up whatever is there and seeing if that does the trick.  If not, I cull them.  With the # of birds I take care of now, it\'s just not worth my time to keep messing with a sick bird.

Secondly, I saw several references to feeding yogurt.  I know there is some debate about this but I\'ve read from some sources that I consider very reliable that any milk product is a no-no for chickens.  They can\'t digest it and it causes diarrhea.  Diarrhea is definitely something you wouldn\'t want your bird to have if it\'s having a problem getting nutrients in the first place.

Hope that helps.

God Bless,
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 03, 2012, 09:33:39 AM
There is still a large mushy crop lump this morning. I massaged it some, then tipped forward and made her throw up. I was afraid to do it for more than about ten seconds, but after the first time, I couldn\'t get her to do it again. It does smell sour. She\'s still acting fairly normal and there was two nice size poops under her perch. I\'m very concerned about trying to get some nutrition in her without packing it more. I\'m thinking there probably is some hay in her adding to the problem, it just hasn\'t packed real hard yet. I\'m thinking along the lines of oiling her (not sure how much) and getting some more apple cider vinegar in her, then maybe getting something like \"Nutri-Cal\" to help with nutrition. It\'s 17 degrees here and still snowing and blowing.

I did question the yogurt a little, but only because I didn\'t know if it would contribute to the dairy souring if she\'s not digesting things well. I like giving a little to them periodically in a normal situation.

More later.  
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: HarryS on January 03, 2012, 09:57:01 AM
Sorry, but the best cure I have found is a hatchet.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 03, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
Well, I wouldn\'t tilt her forward, I\'d turn her upside down with neck extended and then squeeze the crop until the runny sour food stuff comes out.  The chicken is not going to want to help you at all.  They don\'t like it.  If she is upside down, head down, it\'s going to be hard for the liquid to run back up into the lungs.  If she is holding her head up, you might need someone to keep it down for you.

Can you feel any mass in the crop? Don\'t be afraid to squeeze around in there, that\'s about the only way you are going to be able to feel one.

As far as a liquid diet goes,  you can probably put her on some liquid vitamins.  Another good source of food would be egg yolk mixed with some baby food cereal and water.  That\'s what I used for soft foods after surgery.  A little olive oil should work just fine as a lubricant.  And I have given my chickens a little plain yogurt before with no ill effects.  You just give them about a teaspoon, that\'s all, to restore beneficial bacteria.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Beth C on January 03, 2012, 12:00:48 PM
Sharon: I don\'t know how much she\'ll be able to absorb with an impacted crop, but it can\'t hurt to try the Nutri-Cal. My best wheaten pullet this year (isn\'t it always the best one?) managed to get her head trapped behind a loose board during a wind storm. She was alive when I found her but her neck was so sore she couldn\'t even lift her head, much less eat or drink. Figured she was going to die anyway, I didn\'t have anything to lose, so I stuck her in a crate in the garage, syringed water into her to keep her hydrated & force-fed her Nutri-Cal, and she did fully recover. But I don\'t think she would have w/o the Nuti-Cal, because it was at least a week before she could eat on her own.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 03, 2012, 03:00:20 PM
Well, I fought the blizzard and bought me some: Nutri-Cal, mineral oil, & IV tubing (Pet Supplies Plus has the tubing). I got her to throw up a lot more and it smells real sour. I can\'t feel any blockages, but the big question now is how to get it all to pass on through, and if there\'s no blockages, why isn\'t it digesting?  

After she threw up quite a bit, and I let her settle for several minutes, I fed her a little Nutri-Cal and got some mineral oil and apple cider vinegar in her. I\'m still not understanding the reasoning behind holding her totally upside down. If I threw up that way I\'d surely choke. And when a chicken throws up after drinking too much water, they don\'t have any problems with their head facing forward. I held her almost all of the way down, but when the stuff started coming out, I let her pick up her head a little and I kept pushing the stuff out for 10-15 seconds. She didn\'t choke or cough at all. I hope I didn\'t mess things up. If she got some into her lungs, how soon would I know? And she didn\'t fight me at all.

She acts hungry, and as long as I sprinkle little pieces of egg shell on whatever I\'m trying to feed her, she\'ll eat it. Looks like candy sprinkles to her, I guess. I\'m going to mix her up a very small batch of raw egg, mineral oil, ACV, & Nutri-Cal and give it to her in an hour or so.

Any other thoughts on how to get her digestive system back on track or what else to do for her. Her crop is still large. I\'m thinking a lot of this was cause from the lack of grit. I normally mix it into their feed instead of free choice. I had one bird that would eat every bit of grit I\'d set out. But since she\'s no longer here, I will start setting it out again.

Sharon  
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Beth C on January 03, 2012, 05:09:28 PM
I\'m way out of my realm here, but I\'ll throw this out there anyway: my buddy almost lost a really nice doe kid when she treated the mother with antibiotics, which passed to the kid through the milk, sterilizing her gut. When she didn\'t respond to probiotics they did a manure tea from a healthy animal to restore gut flora and it worked like a charm. But a crop isn\'t the same as a gut - does anyone know if there is a similar trick for birds?
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 03, 2012, 09:30:17 PM
Well, if her crop is still large it either is not emptied of the sour feed or there is a mass in there you are just not recognizing.  Or sometimes, there is air in the crop, maybe because of gas buildup?  If you can\'t feel any solid matter in her crop and she is not pooping, she must be blocked further down the digestive tract.  There isn\'t much to do in that case, except hope the extra fluids help her pass it.  
So all I can advise is treat her for sour crop and hope it clears up.  Try to get all the sour food out of her crop before treatment, which ever way you feel comfortable with.  I will tell you, it is easier to empty or clean that crop if you add a little water to it.  After a few days of treatment, if it is still filling and not emptying, she probably has a blockage further down.  I can only suggest extra fluids in the hope it will move it along.  Other than that, there really isn\'t anything that I think can be done.  Hope she makes it.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Mike Gilbert on January 05, 2012, 12:30:40 PM
Sharon, how about an update?
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 05, 2012, 02:29:03 PM
Yesterday morning, her crop was as large as it has ever been, probably close to a small grapefruit. She was acting fine, very alert, poop was a little runny, but at least there was poop. I massaged the lump a lot and made her throw up again, then fed her some Nutri-cal with grit and egg shell stuck in it. Thankfully, she still had her appetite. I called Peter Brown to get his input and he told me to try to flush it and make her throw up.

Teresa came over and she held \"Ruby\" and got her mouth open. I gently stuck a 3-4 inch IV tubing down her throat and syringed in some warm water. Peter told me to use 1 or 2 CCs of water, massage and make her throw up, then repeat in an hour or so a few times...and to be very careful not to put too much water in to where it starts to come back up on its own or I\'d drown the bird.

Okay, so here is where you can shake your head at my stupidity and say, \"Only by the grace of God...\" I didn\'t have anything that measured CCs so I guessed at it by feeling how much empty room I thought was in the crop and I put about 2 teaspoons in the syringe. When I just now thought about the online measure conversion, I Googled to see how much water 2 teaspoons was...= 10CCs...oops!

Teresa and I flushed Ruby 4 times within an hour (yes, I know what the doctor said, but we were pressed for time) ...each time Ruby threw up a little more than what I put into her. After that, you could tell most of the liquid was out of her, but there was still this large squishy ball that felt like loose hay that hadn\'t hardened. I then watered down (just enough water to make it runny) some Nutri-Cal and syringed it into her so I knew she would be fed. (Nutri-Cal is a thick paste-like substance that is full of calories and vitamins. Many almost-dead animals have been revived with this great product.) They seem to like the taste, too.

THIS MORNING\'S UPDATE: The lump is about the size of a lemon and is real soft...Yea! I made Ruby a small quarter size glob of watered down Nutri-Cal, a few bits of bread to soak it up, and egg shells and she gobbled it up. Teresa is coming over this afternoon to help me flush her again. I\'m not sure how much water to use, probably 5CCs. I think its really a matter of using as much as you can without overdoing it. The more water, the better, but also a much higher risk.

I really think this was all cause from a lack of grit. That\'s my best guess anyway. I\'m sure there may be other possible reasons. Thankfully, I caught this real fast. I will give another (much shorter) update again tomorrow. Thanks for your thoughtful concern. And I hope this helps others who may find themselves in this situation.

Sharon
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 05, 2012, 07:04:28 PM
Well, grit could very well be what caused it.  I my experience, grit didn\'t make a difference.  They had access to it, but the hay still wadded up in the crop.  I guess some chickens just eat more of it than others and it causes problems.  If they are penned, I make sure my hens don\'t have access to it anymore.  But I would recommend giving them access to grit anyway.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Mike Gilbert on January 05, 2012, 08:34:29 PM
So why does anybody feed hay?   I don\'t, and cannot remember the last time any chicken on the place had an impacted crop.   I do feed chaff, gathered up when hay is moved from one barn to another, but it has very little long stem in it, and is primarily alfalfa leaves.  No way would I feed dry grass.   Wood shavings are much better bedding, and the chickens don\'t eat them.  My birds do get free choice grit, not mixed in the feed.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 05, 2012, 09:23:04 PM
I don\'t \"feed\" hay, but I use it for the hen boxes. I never had a problem with anyone eating it until I mixed the younger girls (now 7 months old and starting to lay) in with the older girls. The young one thinks it\'s cool to get in the boxes and take all of the hay out. The older girls see the hay in their mouths and take it away from them and eat it. It\'s a very strange situation here. I could never use pine shavings with my older girls because they would eat it all. They never bothered with the hay. Now, the young girls are after the hay. That is one reason (other than dust) that I thought about trying shredded paper. I have my 5 week old chick (in my office) on the shredded hay. He loves nestling down in it and I\'ve never seen him eating it. Haven\'t tried it out in the coop yet...to be continued...

RUBY UPDATE TONIGHT: When I brought Ruby into the garage to work on her this evening, she started making a stressful breathing sound that sounded like a child with asthma. I have three black hens that are all out of the same pen from Joseph Woodiel who sent me eggs and I hatched out 16 months ago. All three are almost identical (Tonya, Tucker, & Ruby) and are exceptional in \"every\" way. I have wonderful stories about each one, but will spare you the details. It will be a miracle if I ever find anything close to them ever again. They will submit to \"anything\" I ever try to do, but this time, when she let me know she was feeling stressed, I submitted. I just loved on her for a little while, then put her back in the coop and put Tonya in with her. I\'ll see how she\'s doing in the morning and go from there.

Just for the record: These three hens are Paul Smith/John Blehm cross. I tried to get more eggs from Joe earlier this year, but the rooster was attacked and killed. I think by a fox.  
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 06, 2012, 03:47:33 PM
I checked on Ruby at 8:00pm last night and her stressful breathing had stopped. No signs of it this morning, either. The lemon-size ball is now a golf ball. It seems to have gone down a little more. This morning I fed her a chopped up hard boiled egg with a tsp of watered down Nuri-Cal poured over it which the yolk soaked up. She ate it right away. I\'ll keep her on a light diet for a few days, then try her on a little chicken feed if the lump goes away.

Just checked on her at 3:00pm. Lump is the same size. She\'s a little quieter than normal and didn\'t want anymore food. And I\'m not sure if she\'s drank any water. I\'ll have to keep better track of that. She still hasn\'t laid an egg since 12-30-11. Hope she\'s just tired. It\'s warming up here. I may take her for a walk outside this evening. More later.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 06, 2012, 06:12:11 PM
Quote from: Mike Gilbert
So why does anybody feed hay?   I don\'t, and cannot remember the last time any chicken on the place had an impacted crop.   I do feed chaff, gathered up when hay is moved from one barn to another, but it has very little long stem in it, and is primarily alfalfa leaves.  No way would I feed dry grass.   Wood shavings are much better bedding, and the chickens don\'t eat them.  My birds do get free choice grit, not mixed in the feed.


You misunderstood me.  I don\'t feed hay, I used to use it as bedding as it was free.  I still have it in the nest boxes, but that doesn\'t seem to present a problem with older hens who are free ranged anyway.  It was the younger birds that I grow out that were kept penned with hay bedding that I had problems with.  They get bored with feed and turn to hay I guess.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 06, 2012, 06:26:00 PM
Quote from: Sharon Yorks
I checked on Ruby at 8:00pm last night and her stressful breathing had stopped. No signs of it this morning, either. The lemon-size ball is now a golf ball. It seems to have gone down a little more. This morning I fed her a chopped up hard boiled egg with a tsp of watered down Nuri-Cal poured over it which the yolk soaked up. She ate it right away. I\'ll keep her on a light diet for a few days, then try her on a little chicken feed if the lump goes away.

Just checked on her at 3:00pm. Lump is the same size. She\'s a little quieter than normal and didn\'t want anymore food. And I\'m not sure if she\'s drank any water. I\'ll have to keep better track of that. She still hasn\'t laid an egg since 12-30-11. Hope she\'s just tired. It\'s warming up here. I may take her for a walk outside this evening. More later.


That\'s good that the lump seems to be getting smaller.  Are you massaging it?  Does the food seem to be passing through her better?  The breathing is worriesome.  I hope food or water didn\'t get in her lungs.  Antibiotics might be called for if that happened.  Thanks for the updates.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Mike Gilbert on January 06, 2012, 06:29:12 PM
If the chickens are bored they oftentimes turn to vices that are not good for them, including feather picking.  Now that is another type of roughage that may be difficult to pass through the crop.   I\'m told that hanging a head of cabbage just above their heads, so they need to stretch a bit to reach it,  is a good ploy to keep them busy and eating something healthy for them.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 06, 2012, 07:44:22 PM
It almost seems as though all the liquid has gone and now it\'s down to a small harder lump. It was a lot squishier when there was liquid in it, but we made her throw most of that up and she\'s pooped the rest of it out. I just went down to the coop again at 6:30pm and took a syringe full of water and dripped it into her mouth a few drops at a time until she got all of the water in her...probably 3 tbs. I sat and massaged the knot (which I should have done more often today) and tried to loosen it up. It did a little, but there still seems to be a small mass in there. But what was real surprising was, as soon as I put her back in her 5x8 run and put one of her sisters in with her for the night, she went over and drank some more water. That has me a bit confused. Maybe I just primed the pump.

She hasn\'t made the stress breathing sound since I took her out of the garage. I think that was just a stress issue that was relieved once she went back to the coop. Looking back, flushing her 4 times in an hour was way to much. I\'m sure it helped a lot, and she didn\'t rebel or fight, but that had to be hard on her. I think she felt internal panic when I brought her back in the garage, thinking we were going to stick that tube into her throat again. I don\'t think any water got into her lungs. She made that sound once last spring. It sounded so much like when my son had the croup, I rushed Ruby into the house and steamed up the bathroom, then stood her in a warm tub of water and steamed her up. ..okay, you can all stop laughing at me now. I\'m new at this...but she did stop breathing like that by the time I took her out of the shower, and I wrapped her in a towel, dried her off, then blow-dried her off. I remember standing her on my husband\'s work table, thinking...\"This bird actually acts like she likes this.\" She never once tried to jump off the table or get away from me. She hasn\'t made that sound since, until last night.

I need to get more liquids in her, I think. I hate to put ACV because it smells so sour, but it may help with the digestion. Ahhh! What to do, what to do?
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Beth C on January 07, 2012, 08:11:53 AM
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steamed up the bathroom then stood her in a warm tub of water and steamed her up. ..okay, you can all stop laughing at me now.


No laughter here - I have an elderly Amazon parrot with chronic respiratory problems and this is exactly what my avian vet told me to do when he has flare-ups. (Which are thankfully rare in our hot, humid climate.)
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: greeneggsandham on January 07, 2012, 03:52:06 PM
I would keep a little AVC in her water for a couple of days.  It does help with digestion.  That small ball shouldn\'t be too much of a problem with her crop, but you never know.  Could be some of it is down in her proventriculus which could be slowing the emptying of the crop.  When she gets back on a regular diet you will know whether that mass is going to be an issue or not.
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 09, 2012, 07:53:31 PM
I\'m really not sure what\'s going on with Ruby and/or what I \"should\" be doing at this point. The golf ball size lump is still there and was real hard this morning and felt like it had no room to move around and was stuck against her. She\'s acting a little quiet, but still moving around and pooping. I did notice her stopping several times to move her head and neck in an S shape, trying to move the lump. Yesterday, was about the same. I put a half of a crumbled up hard boiled egg in front of her. She acts like she wants to eat, and does a little, but soon loses interest. I even tossed her a few Cheerios. She ran toward them and ate a few, but then quit and left the rest. If any of my birds turns away a Cheerio, there\'s something wrong! I considered the fact that penning her by herself may be bothering her since she paces the fence when she sees her sisters. So, right or wrong, this is what I did...

I put Tonya & Tucker in with her last night and gave them all a couple of handfuls of their normal food. With a little competition, she did grab a little before turning away. I also seen her take 12 sips of water with ACV in it, which made me feel better. This morning, the weather was nice so I opened the little door and let them out in a 5x12 (no grass). An hour or so later, I dripped a little liquified Nutri-Cal in her mouth, waiting for Teresa to come over this evening so we could tube her again. About 3:00pm while Teresa was on her way, I put Ruby in the garage, sat on the inside step, and her and my blue healer took turns waiting for me to toss them a piece of bread. She ate a few real small pieces, then walked away and left the rest. I had a dog crate with shavings sitting in the corner and she actually went inside and fluffed up the shavings. I thought maybe she was going to finally lay another egg, but she didn\'t. She then casually toured the garage, pooped a couple of times, then came to see what I was doing. I don\'t know what she\'s pooping, since she\'s not really eating, but it seems fairly normal. And the only reason I offered her normal food was because she doesn\'t appear to be clogged up and I don\'t want her to lose energy by starving her.

When Teresa got here, we tubed in 2 and a half tsp of watered-down Nutri-Cal in her. It filled her crop up a little and made it much easier to massage. I made a judgement call on the amount of liquid and think I made the right call. I left the liquid in her (since sour crop is no longer an issue) and at least I know she won\'t get dehydrated and has nutrition. I\'m hoping the mass eventually breaks up and dissolves. I\'m just not sure why she has lost her appetite. Maybe her throat is sore from tubing. She holds very still and I enter it slow and pull it out slow. That\'s where were at now and that\'s all I know (guessing) to do.

Sharon

Below is a picture of Tonya and her bodyguard while she was in quarantine after the fair last year. We spotted coyotes nearby several times so someone had to stand guard. ;)
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 10, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
Ruby is doing good. Her energy has picked up and she is eating better. Still pooping normal, too. I really think putting her back in with the others helped a lot. Teresa and I tubed her again today with 2 & 1/2 tsp of watered-down Nutri-Cal. I think adding water and massaging it is helping to break up the lump and keeping her hydrated with vitamins. The lump is going down slowly, but at least it\'s going down. I\'m anticipating a full recovery by the weekend. I\'ll post an update on Monday.  --Sharon
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: Sharon Yorks on January 16, 2012, 03:22:39 PM
Just a quick final update: Ruby’s lump is almost totally gone. It was so small this morning I had to check her sister to make sure I had the right bird. Big lesson learned: Keep grit in front of them at all times. I’m guessing that’s what started all of this in the first place. I would never want to go through it again, but I definitely learned a lot about what to do for sour crop and an impacted crop. It’s great to know that surgery is not always necessary. I’m thinking that the flushing and vomiting for sour crop, and the tubing of watered-down Nutri-cal and massaging (along with a little ACV & grit) for the impaction, was the key. Thanks to all for your concern and support. What a great forum!
Title: Hen has large crop issue - Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Post by: John on January 16, 2012, 03:50:38 PM
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Keep grit in front of them at all times.

Good advice.
Also remember chickens don\'t have teeth to bite off long pieces of food.  When they eat grass in the lawn they can pull it to break off pieces to swallow, but once my brother lost many young pheasants that he feed long strands of grass that he picked for them.  Mowed grass is generally short enough, but tall grass picked by hand and given the birds can be a problem to swallow and digest.  Be careful that well meaning kids don\'t try to feed your birds things they shouldn\'t.