Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Exhibiting & Promoting => Topic started by: Kelly Gore on November 23, 2017, 04:13:04 PM
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I am a little confused as to how the point system works. I had a pullet win Best AOSB at our show in October. Does that mean Ch Ameraucana? That is not written on the coop card.
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Kelly, A bird has to win a class to advance to the next level. So yes if you had Champion AOSB, it had to first win Best of Variety, then Best of Breed. You get ABC points up to Champion Ameraucana, so the number of AMs shown will determine the number of points. You can also gain points for all of the entries that you win over in the AOSB classes for the APA.
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Congratulations on your win!
CH AOSB does not automatically equal CH Ameraucana. CH Ameraucana and Res CH Ameraucana are the top two Ameraucanas overall, in both bantam and large fowl. A judge has to be requested to make that designation and, usually, we only do it for District or National meets.
To give an example, let's say we have the following: in Large fowl, Best of Breed was a black cockerel, and the Reserve of Breed was a blue hen. In bantams, the BB was a silver hen and the RB was a wheaten pullet.
We ask the judge to choose CH Ameraucana and Reserve CH Ameraucana. The judge decides that the best Ameraucana entered that day was the black cockerel from the large fowl class and the Reserve goes to the silver hen.
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To take the above example a bit further, let's say there were 38 LF Ameraucanas entered and judged and 22 bantam Ameraucanas.
The Black cockerel that won BB in LF automatically gets 38 points and the Blue Hen that won RB gets 37 points.
The Silver Hen that won BB in bantams has earned 22 points and the wheaten pullet that won RB earns 21 points.
If CH Ameraucana and Res CH Ameraucana are named, then the points would be for the total Ameraucanas entered, in both LF and bantam, so, instead of the above, the Black Ameraucana named CH Ameraucana would get 38 + 22 points = 60 points, because he beat all large fowl and all bantam. The Silver Hen that was awarded Reserve CH Ameraucana would get one point less - 37 (she didn't beat the Black Cockerel) + 22 = 59 points.
The RB in LF and the RB in bantams points won't change - they still only beat the other birds in their class.
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My coop card does have BV and BB in black. The Best AOSB in red. I have no idea how many Ameraucana's were at the show. I didn't see any bantams. So, if there were 25 LF entered. My best would get 25 points. My other pullet had RV and RB written on her card. She would get 24 points? And are points accumulated per calendar year or? So much to learn!
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You've got it! If there were 25 entered and judged (not absent), then your BB would get 25 points and your RB would get 24.
Points from Open class are accumulated over your whole showing career and as long as you are a member of the ABC. Points from Jr classes are accumulated until you reach age 18.
Points for the ABC are only counted for how many Ameraucanas you beat, so wins for Class CH and above are not counted. However, if you are a member of the APA, Class CH an Res Class CH can count for points, if there are at least 25 birds in the whole class.
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There is an explanation of how ABC Points are figured on the website. I think that you can locate it by following the link to Exhibitor Points. The Annual High Point Award is figured from the first show after the Nationals through the last show before the next National Show. It is not the calendar year. Many of the breed clubs award show points using the same process as the ABC.
APA points are figured on how many birds were entered in the class. It used to be only for the Best of Class with a 25 entry limit. I think that they are changing that to allow Reserve Champions of Class to receive points too.
The ABA awards points to members based on the size of the show and the amount of birds entered in the class.
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The Annual High Point awards ended with this last National. I'm working on meet reports and points now, so should have some numbers and winners soon.
Of course, Master Breeder and the other recognition for achievements will continue.
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Susan,
We appreciate all of the work that you do for our club. I know how much work it is to keep up with all of the reports and point tabulations that you do. It is hard enough for me to work and keep up with feeding and tending to the chickens.
Be Blessed,
Ernie
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So, if we ask show management to have a "Champion Ameraucana" chosen at a AM Meet we could potentially be doubling or more the points the winner of that honor gets? And if nobody asks, they just get their LF and Bantam points?
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The champion Ameraucana from the large fowl verses the bantam should only be awarded at the ABC national or the five district meets.
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Seth, The Champion AM LF/Bantam are only applicable to the ABC as well, and even then as Paul mentioned just for the National/District meets. They will not apply to any further points for the show or to the APA/ABA. Most poultry Breed clubs that I am aware of do not use this designation so the LF and Bantams stand alone in their Award Points.
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This is not exactly the way I understand our current Point System.
Just Saying,
Ernie
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There is no stated rule that CH and Res CH Ameraucana are for National and District Meets only and there have been a few times where CH Ameraucana was chosen by the judge at a club or, as previously designated, special or state meet and points have been awarded accordingly.
However, since LF and bantams are usually judged by two different judges, you are asking two judges to go out of their way to choose CH and Res CH Ameraucana winners, so it is not generally done unless it is a significant meet.
As mentioned above, CH and Res CH Ameraucana applies only to ABC points and has no impact, or is even recorded and recognized by APA or ABA.
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If Champion and Reserve Champion Ameraucana is only going to be awarded at District and National Meets, we need to clarify that before we get started into 2018. This would be a great time to make it "written" rather than "intended". Because we have only been members of the ABC for a few years, I read the website to learn our current Point System. I have always understood our ABC points to be awarded based on what is written on the website. I know that policies and things change as time goes on and websites sometime get overlooked. Lord knows that my personal website is very outdated. Our new members have to rely on what is written to understand the way our club is ran.
If you look at our Point System, it currently states that one point will be given to the Champion Ameraucana for every Ameraucana exhibited in both Large Fowl and Bantam. The Reserve Champion Ameraucana will receive one point for every Ameraucana exhibited in both Large Fowl and Bantam less one. It doesn't say anything about only being awarded at District and National Shows. There would be no reason to select a Champion or Reserve Champion Ameraucana if either the Large Fowl or Bantam class had no entries.
We were at a show last weekend where both the Large Fowl and Bantams were judged by the same judge. He selected the Large Fowl as Champion Ameraucana and a Bantam as Reserve Champion Ameraucana. It was nice to think that our Bantams could compete with the Large Fowl based on quality and the Standard of Perfection. If the Large Fowl and Bantams were judged by two different judges, let them discuss it. Judges are able to come to decisions about Champion Row all the time. I think that open discussion between two or more judges could help educate some of the judges who aren't well versed on the Ameraucana Breed Standards.
Just Saying,
Ernie
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Under a previous Administration, the Meet Report form was changed, arbitrarily by one Board member, to show that CH and Res CH Ameraucana were only to be selected at National and District meets. With the changeover in the Board in 2015, the Board members decided to remove that restriction and permit CH and Res CH Ameraucana at any show. That has not changed.
If I get a Meet Report where CH and Res CH Ameraucana has been selected - by the judge - then those points are awarded and the award is noted on the meet report, regardless of what type meet it is.
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I went back through some of the meet reports that have been posted over the past year and found some that were not National, or District Meets, but birds were awarded the CH or Res CH Ameraucana. In all of these, the winner was accorded the points for their win.
All Meet Reports are posted, when completed (and I'm running behind on those right now), on the website at: http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet report.html (http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet report.html)
Comanche Crossroads, 2/2/17
http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/2-12-17%20Comanche%20Crossroads%20Comanche%20TX.pdf (http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/2-12-17%20Comanche%20Crossroads%20Comanche%20TX.pdf)
Pelican Classic, 11/19/16
http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/11-19-16%20Pelican%20Classic%20Haynesville%20LA.pdf (http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/11-19-16%20Pelican%20Classic%20Haynesville%20LA.pdf)
Ohio National, 11/13/16
http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/11-12-16%20Ohio%20National%20Columbus%20OH.pdf (http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/11-12-16%20Ohio%20National%20Columbus%20OH.pdf)
Gulf South Fall Classic, 11/12/16
http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/11-12-16%20Gulf%20South%20Fall%20Classic%20Baton%20Rouge%20LA.pdf (http://www.ameraucanabreedersclub.org/meet_reports/11-12-16%20Gulf%20South%20Fall%20Classic%20Baton%20Rouge%20LA.pdf)
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Thanks, Susan for clarifying that. That is the way that I read our Point System policy. I will admit that I thought it was a little strange at first because I had never seen an Ameraucana Bantam. The first time that I had ever seen an Ameraucana Bantam was in December of 2014 in Shawnee, Oklahoma. Now that Bantam Ameraucanas are starting to grow in popularity, we see others at most of the shows in this area. In some of the shows around here, Bantams have outnumbered the Large Fowl.
And thanks again Susan and Temple for keeping up with all of this mess for our Club. I know that both of you must have other things that you could be doing with your time.
Be Blessed,
Ernie
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First I have to extend a heartfelt THANK YOU
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Okay....I was trying to say THANK YOU to Susan and Temple for great work on a difficult job of recording show reports and compiling points.
Susan clarified the issue of CH and RCH in her post at the top of page 2. Having said that I would like to stress that the word "intent" (since it has been mentioned several times in this discussion) causes more disturbance than any other little word I know. It is subjective and open to interpretation from anyone. I have already been through this issue (show points) as a board member with a much bigger association than ABC. "Intent" does not cut it. A rule must be specific to its interpretation....easily and clearly understood by anyone that reads it. I can't count the number of times I heard "Oh, but that was not the intention..." Intention does not matter. You can only enforce what you have "specifically" spelled out. I think the ABC "points" section of the site is very user friendly and understandable.
I, personally, do not see a problem with a CH and RCH at any meet as long as both large fowl and bantams are shown. I would not have a problem if there were a specified number of each that had to be shown to trigger the CH and RCH. I also have not found a judge(s) to have a problem when asked to pick a CH and RCH. If there were separate judges for large fowl and bantams it was very informative to listen to their comments and evaluations as they reached their conclusion as to which would be #1.
Just my thoughts for what they are worth...
Peggy
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Susan, I do not see the AZ State Fair show report. Is it not turned in?
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I'm working my way through the stack...give me time. :)
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Susan,
I don't even want to think about that stack. I see my stacks that are laying around here and feel sorry for you. I am still digging through stacks of Entry Forms that are going to be due in the next few weeks. Just remember to breath once in a while.
I talked to some people from Wisconsin that were at the show in Shawnee. They said that due to the weather, their show season was just about over. I told them that ours had just began. They worry about the snow and freezing temperatures. We worry about the high temperatures on our birds when we are hauling. Everybody has their cross to carry.
Be Blessed,
Ernie
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Susan, I do not see the AZ State Fair show report. Is it not turned in?
Kelly, I do not see anything from the Arizona State Fair. I'll contact them this week to see what we need to do.
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It is bad when a show agrees to host a Special Meet and then doesn't follow up on their paperwork. Not only is it bad for the exhibitor, but it makes more work for Susan and Temple. We keep extra Show Reports in our show box. We make sure that the Show Officials are going to mail them in to the ABC or we get them to sign the paperwork and we send it in ourselves. We have always gotten our points from the ABC, but the APA can be a whole different story. Our points have not been updated in two years with the APA. Maybe this problem can be easily resolved. I know that if you exhibited and got points, you want to get them.
Be Blessed,
Ernie Haire
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I have faith that this will be resolved. Not many points, but they are my first ones! I appreciate all the hard work that goes into this. Thanks Ernie, for the suggestion! I will get show reports and bring them along!
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Anything yet? Should I call Them?
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Anything yet? Should I call Them?
Hi Kelly,
I'm sorry I missed this from you earlier. Nope, according to my Meet Reports Tracker, we have never gotten anything from the show secretary, Russell Page. I don't have an email or phone number and see that they have a different contact on Poultry Show Central. I would really appreciate it if you could chase this report up as it was due 30 days past the show date which I have as October 18, 2017.
Thanks,
-temple
ABC Meets Coordinator
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I will call him tomorrow. Get back to you when I talk with him!