Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Housing, Health & Hatching => Topic started by: dak on April 04, 2013, 12:42:47 PM
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This one is new to me. I have a 3 year old Black Am hen who's comb has tripled in size this spring. It is huge (and ugly). She is not laying though her two hatch mates are laying well and have normal combs.
I am wondering if this might indicate a hormone producing tumor. I wanted a few more chicks from her as she is my favorite (of course), but if this indicates some pathology I can scrap that idea.
Has anyone seen this? If so, what can I expect?
Clare
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Guess this is unusual.
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This is a new one on me so I don't really have any ideas or thoughts of what it could be. Is there anything else unusual about her other than her comb and she's not laying? Is she still eating and acting normal otherwise? Does her eyes look clear and alert? And has there been any weight gain or loss? Is she as active and moving around like before?
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She is completely normal other than that. She can hang out with the layers and free range until she lays or not. She is a rare favorite who won't get culled.
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How about a photo of that comb?
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Is there any heat in the comb
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How about a photo of that comb?
I'll see what I can do, though you would have to see what it was prior to the growth to appreciate the change.
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How about a photo of that comb?
Well, I have pics, but posting pics is an ongoing issue for me. Please don't try to run through the instructions again, it's like talking to a wall.
John, is there an email I can forward them to and you can post them?
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John, is there an email I can forward them to and you can post them?
Sure, just send them to mine. You can see a member's email address by clicking on their name, in the upper left corner of their post.
John@ChickHatchery.com
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Pictures are sent. Thanks John.
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Hi John,
These are the pictures of the 3 y/o (2010) hens comb. It is such a change for her. There has been no injury, just growth this spring. Her two hatchmates are normal and laying great right now. Better than I expected for 3 y/os.
Clare
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It looks to me like it's more than the comb - the rest of the tissue around her face, especially her eyes, looks swollen, too.
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Don't want to seem unkind, but with those black eyes and the misshapen comb I would not want to breed from her anyway. If she is a pet, just enjoy her for what she is. She may or may not have hormone issues, I would guess probably so, but if you would be in a better position to know than we are.
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Don't want to seem unkind, but with those black eyes and the misshapen comb I would not want to breed from her anyway. If she is a pet, just enjoy her for what she is. She may or may not have hormone issues, I would guess probably so, but if you would be in a better position to know than we are.
If you enlarge the last pic you can see the eye is a long way from Black. The misshapen, enlarged comb is a new issue it has been normal for years. Thus my question.
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Update - This hen died yesterday. I found her in the coop. She had been free ranging the day before, which is remarkable in the fact that she has a huge tumor in her abdomen. I believe it was ovarian in origin, as I could not find any normal ovarian tissue.
Clare
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Sorry to hear that, Clare.
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Yeah, kinda a bummer. I don't get too attached, but she had earned her place in the retirement/layer/yard art pen.
Maybe this info will be of use in the future to someone seeing the same signs.
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I'd like to see those pics if John will post them as I've never seen a tumor. In fact, I think I'll go Google "tumor" now just so I can see one. But it would still be informational to see what you experienced.
I have done a necropsy on a couple of birds that "mysteriously" died and when I opened them up they had livers that almost completely filled the abdomen. Each lobe of the liver was about 5" long and 2-3" wide. That's EACH lobe! From what I was told by the vet at the State Extensioner's office, it was Lymphoid Leucosis.
God Bless,
Royce
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I have heard it said that Avian Leucosis or Marek's will kill most birds if they live long enough. These diseases can cause internal tumors, and sometimes the birds die having exhibited no external symptoms.
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I'd like to see those pics if John will post them as I've never seen a tumor. In fact, I think I'll go Google "tumor" now just so I can see one. But it would still be informational to see what you experienced.
Thank you for posting the picture John. The sheer size of it and her relatively normal behavior is what I find unusual.
A recent pathology article in JAVMA (Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Assn.) cited the incidence of ovarian tumors in commercial layers to be as high as 50% by age 4 years. Not that they are usually kept in production that long.
Also, at a recent necropsy session at the NM state vet diagnostic lab we discussed common signs at necropsy of Marek's, and infiltration of the liver was one.
I am trying to necropsy every bird that dies of unknown causes here, and slowly self-teach myself poultry medicine. There was minimal poultry medicine covered at my vet school, but the basics apply to any species.
On another topic, my state (New Mexico) is now doing some surveillance testing for avian influenza. I have been recruited to participate in procuring samples. It sounds like this will be a nationwide effort likely due to recent outbreaks of new pathogenic strains of AI.
Clare
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Sorry to hear that you lost her, but perhaps with what you learn from the necropsy, she will make a contribution to poultry medicine. You may want to bounce some of your findings off Dr. Greg Burkett (http://www.thebirdvet.com/). He's a board certified avian vet up in Durham, a really nice guy. I've taken my parrots to him, since there is no avian vet down this way. I don't know if he does anything with poultry, although he did give a presentation to our pheasant & waterfowl club a few years ago, but he would likely find this interesting none the less.
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I have spoke on the phone with Dr. Morishita (?SP) in, CA that has articles in the Poultry Press, and I believe they have added a poultry vet at CSU, but hands on is always better. I wish it wasn't so costly to run various virology and histopath testing.
I also wish the exhibition poultry industry would lobby for a Mareks vaccine in smaller dosing units. Seems like there are enough smaller breeders to make it worthwhile for a company to make it available.
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Clare, the Marek's vaccine isn't that expensive when you split the wafer and diluent into four parts. It takes a narrow bladed knife to reach into the bottle to split the wafer. I've been doing it for many years.
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It takes a narrow bladed knife to reach into the bottle to split the wafer.
The newer bottles are much smaller than the old ones and I've given up on splitting the wafers. This year I went thru a new unit for each hatch and as you all know it wasn't cheap.
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I use a large needle to break mine, but I've yet to get them even remotely even. I have very small hatches, I'm giving no where near the 500 doses that 1/4 of a bottle would treat, more like 25-50, and I only use as much dilutant as I need for the number of doses I'm doing, so they should be getting plenty, and knock on wood so far it seems to be working. It would be a huge help if they'd just sell the vaccine w/o the dilutant. That's what makes this particular vaccine so expensive, the cost of shipping that gargantuan bottle (the last couple time I bought from Twin City, it's come in bags, that's a little better), and I always throw out half of it.
That said, I agree with you, Clare. It's a matter of getting people to use the vaccine, and the simpler they make it, the more people will use it. And it seems like it would be profitable to the company, since they'll charge 1/2 the price for 1/4 of the dose. But the mentality is if you don't have 2000 birds, you aren't a "real" poultry operation and you're not worth their time. ::)
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http://www.cincinnatisurgical.com/listing.lasso?name=surgical&label=Scalpels&item=scalpels
There are two different scalpels listed from the manufacturer that will work. I use the #11.
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I have plenty of scalpel blades. If they would just package it similar to a dog/cat vaccine that you could reconstitute maybe 20-25 doses worth at a time. None of my various breeds seem to lay at the same time. so hatching season is composed of many small weekly hatches.