Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Housing, Health & Hatching => Topic started by: Sharon Yorks on March 24, 2012, 02:34:10 PM
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I have one particular hen whose eggs are never fertile. I first thought that she was denying the cockerel access, but in the last couple of weeks I\'ve seen that isn\'t the problem. None of her eggs show anything when candled, nor have anything in them if left the full 21 days. She is an F1, so too much line breeding is not the problem and her two hatch mates aren\'t having any trouble what so ever. All three are laying 5 eggs a week, have not been sick, nor have been under any stress at all.
Are some hens just like that, like women who can\'t have babies? Any thoughts on anything I could try? I don\'t want to keep wasting good eggs I could be eating, but I\'d really like to have some chicks out of her, so I can\'t help wanting to put them in my incubator.
Sharon
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Sharon, in my experience infertility in hens is fairly common in this breed. It seems to occur with some of the very best layers. I raise mostly bantams, so really cannot say much about the large fowl. My large brown reds have been really good for fertility.
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Someone once told me to trim the feathers around the vent - that sometimes the feathers are just too thick and fluffy.
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I solved that problem by triming both hen & rooster.
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If excess fluff is the problem, they are perhaps being bred with too much loose feathering. Ameraucana feathering should be more on the order of Plymouth Rocks, not Cochins or Orpingtons. Medium is the best word for almost any attribute you can think of.
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trimming both hen & rooster
I do that to all my breeders every year whether it looks like they need it or not...I need all the fertile eggs I can get.
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Sharon, You did not mention their pen arrangement but could there could be other issues such as hen fighting, tight quarters or even just inexperience for the year. If you really want to to hatch from her, then trim them and put her in with the male as a pair in as large a pen as you can spare. A little quality time might get them working together better. If she is a real prize winner as a last resort you could always try AI to see if you can get a few chicks out. You will want to follow chicks that are from this mating to see if its going to repeat itself. Obviously the goal is create a very active and productive line of birds.
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trimming both hen & rooster
I do that to all my breeders every year whether it looks like they need it or not...I need all the fertile eggs I can get.
John, you know I love you like a brother, but have you ever considered that practice is perpetuating a problem? The reason we have fertility problems from excess fluffiness is because we breed from those birds. Raise chicks from only those that reproduce naturally without assistance, and in a few years the problem goes away via natural selection. I must confess there was a time when I did the same thing, but not any more since realizing what that was doing. The integrity of the breed should come before other considerations.
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I have this hen in an 8x5 indoor section of my coop that has an 10x12 outside run access. She is only in with the cockerel and her two hatch mate sisters and all 4 get along very well. This is \"Tonya\" the hen that my son won reserve grand champion (out of 83 birds) at the fair last year and is the sister to the one in my avatar picture.
I did flip her over and checked her fluff and it was very thick. I trimmed a lot off and am eager to see if that is the issue. (How long would it take to know? Would the eggs be fertile in a day or two?) I date all of my eggs.
I agree with Mike (to a point) but am curious as to why her two sisters are not having any problems with that issue and if breeding Tonya would create more problems. I do believe that she is well worth giving it a try, but appreciate the heads up and will keep a sharp eye out for her offspring to see if it is passed on.
Thanks for the information. I love this forum! Just wished I would have asked earlier. I have eggs due April 7th, but will be setting more of her eggs on the 10th. I guess we\'ll know in 5-6 days after that when I candle them.
Sharon
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but have you ever considered that practice is perpetuating a problem?
I don\'t think it is. I select for birds with the proper feathers and am not trimming because there is excessive fluff, although at least one LF buff has it. If I were trimming due to excessive fluff I would agree.
These birds may even have the same fertility whether trimmed or not, but with all I have invested in feed, electricity, etc. I want them to have every advantage possible to produce eggs that produce chicks.
This also helps cut down on the waste product (caca) that sometimes accumulates on the feathers around the vent, since the feathers are trimmed short.
I know you don\'t use heated waterers for your birds, but I do. Not because they need them, but to make sure there is plenty of water available during the egg collecting season. Those waterers also save a lot of my time all winter long. ;)
The same with feeding them a special game bird breeder feed starting about a month before collecting eggs to set. On this one we\'ll probably agree that it helps produce yokes that will produce healthier chicks (prenatal health).
I liken it somewhat to artificial insemination (AI). If someone uses that method because that is the way they want to it is probably a good way to go. But, if they use AI because their birds are to big to mate naturally then they are perpetuating a problem.
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I understand you need to do certain things when you are running a commercial operation, and since that is your focus I\'m not faulting you. All I\'m saying is that by making these compromises you don\'t allow natural selection to do it\'s thing;
there is no way to weed out those that would not reproduce naturally. BTW, I personally would find another hobby altogether before practicing AI on a chicken. It\'s just a little too wierd for my taste, and totally unneccessary under my set of priorities.
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Amen to that, Mike.
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Sharon: I had a hen with the same problem, and w/in a couple of days of trimming her I got fertile eggs. I see both points on the trimming, but in this case it was a large buff pullet with good leg color, the most even body color in my flock, and for an added bonus she lays a blue egg. I won\'t be as generous with her daughters, but this year I needed this bird.
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The not so news worthy information but interesting
maybe she doesn\'t like the Rooster!
http://news.discovery.com/animals/hens-eject-sperm-110907.html
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The not so news worthy information but interesting
maybe she doesn\'t like the Rooster!
http://news.discovery.com/animals/hens-eject-sperm-110907.html
Now that\'s an interesting read. Not long ago I read a BBC article about how mares that are taken off-site to be serviced (whether through live cover or AI) are more likely to spontaneously abort upon reintegration to the home herd, especially if there is a stallion present. There are so many facets to animal reproduction that we still don\'t fully understand. Thanks for sharing!
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I\'m just trying to visualize how in the world they collected and measured their data for that study...... never mind, I don\'t think I want to know!
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I\'m just trying to visualize how in the world they collected and measured their data for that study...... never mind, I don\'t think I want to know!
I\'m with you. I don\'t want to know. The first hatch I did this year, I had her and 2 others in with my alpha male. I had collected 7 eggs each and set 21. The 14 other eggs were all fertile, but none of hers were.
I then waited a month and put her and her sisters in with another male and it was pretty much the same story. I first thought that she must be good at avoiding him, but then noticed him covering one of them from a distance so I rushed over to see who it was. I was like, \"Yea!\" when I saw that it was her...then felt stupid for cheering over such a thing. I then noticed him with her several other times so that is why I started this post because none of her eggs have been fertile.
I really think at this point, or am hoping anyway, that it was just a matter of too much butt fluff -- Okay, I know that\'s not what it\'s called, but it\'s been a stressful morning and the correct word/name isn\'t coming to me at the moment :thinking:
I will be sure to update this post when I see if trimming her was the answer. My current batch of eggs aren\'t supposed to hatch until April 7th, but I think I\'m going to grab today\'s egg and stick it in there so I can candle it in 5-6 days. No, I\'m not impatient...well, okay. Maybe just a little bit.
--Sharon
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Sharon
I know this is an old topic, but did the vent trimming help? Did that hen ever have fertile eggs?