Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Breeding => Topic started by: dixieland on February 29, 2012, 05:30:18 AM
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Can one of our gurus put some pictures to the standard when it comes to correct tailfeathers, angles and carriage?
I would love to see an ideal and then some \" less then ideal\"...
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Actually there are pictures IN the Standard that depict correct tails. I\'ve been biting my lip, but the tail on that lavender female in another recent thread looks very pinched, or else she is missing the majority of her tail feathers. The tail is to be moderately spread, with coverts running well up the tail. Moderately spread means the main tail feathers, usually seven on each side, are neither pinched together nor fan shaped, but somewhere in the middle. We also need to avoid the appearance of a convex cushion area on females, as there should be a fairly defined break between slope of back and rise of tail. Does that help? I\'m afraid too many exhibitors and judges are preferring a modified Orpington look, and that is not the intent of the Standards.
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I think the tail on my silver project bird is pretty nice.
(http://assets.backyardchickens.com.s3.amazonaws.com/7/7c/403x363px-LL-7cdd81d1_007.jpeg)
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Not bad at all. It might still be just a tad fan shaped, but it is better than most. And there is no convex cushion in front of the tail either. The tail in my avatar is pretty good, but I think a little too long. There is too much main tail showing beyond the coverts. It is so nice to be talking about type instead of color for once.
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Yes, Mike, a bit fanned out, but better than pinched I would say.
I had an issue with my whites also having pinched tails. Most birds will have a pinched saddle too.
I think I will be crossing my whites to black this year to get rid of the barring gene and improve the tails.
You can see a wheaten hen in the background that has a pinched tail also.
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Mike and Jean,
With your descriptions, all of the pictures make more sense.... Yes, there are some birds that have the tail that the Ameraucana standard calls for, but there are just as many being shown and winning it seems that have the Orpington type tail... I think that may be part of my confusion.....
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to get rid of the barring gene
Jean,
Her tail looks very nice from here, but I have a little question regarding color without derailing the topic I hope.
You mentioned to me that you heard the barring gene produces better whites, which I hadn\'t heard before. Is your experience with the LF whites different than what was said?
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John, the problem with the barring gene in the ameraucana is that it is a dermal melanin inhibitor.
Works good on making a nice white bird, but creates issues with eye and shank color. Not worth the hassle....
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Which begs the question, \"which genetics make for the best white Ameraucana?\" I would submit that two copies of recessive white, sex linked silver, and two copies of Bl (blue) on a base of extended black (E) or birchen (E^R) would get you where you need to go. But it still needs to have proper Ameraucana shape.
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the barring gene in the Ameraucana is that it is a dermal melanin inhibitor
Ooh...I don\'t deal with the barring gene and hadn\'t given it any thought.
\"which genetics make for the best white Ameraucana?\"
You could always throw in dominate white for good measure. With all that I don\'t think it then matters what e-locus it is based on.
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But it still needs to have proper Ameraucana shape.
That brings up another topic---The outline or shape varied on several of the winners at Crossroads...
I think a seminar on basic breed type might be a great idea for this fall.. What do the rest of you think?
BTW- Mike- Trying to talk about things other then color was my intent, but it always seems to go back to color ; B)
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It does get confusing at times looking at show winners and then trying to reconcile them with the SOP. Hopefully, in those instances the judges are picking the best out of the Ameraucanas exhibited and not going with some personal notion of how the breed should look.
I know it doesn\'t need to be said but it\'s up to us to not show any Orpington-type or pinched tailed birds.
I had a couple of pinch tailed pullets this year. Didn\'t know what to call it but knew I didn\'t like it.
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You could always throw in dominate white for good measure.
With all that I don\'t think it then matters what e-locus it is based on.
Yes, but if you have dominant white without the two copies of recessive white, you will likely end up with red markings unless your base is E or E^R. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but dominant white does not mask pheomelanin (red feathers).
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Is this a pinched tail
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What about this one?
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No to the first, but she may have a little too much cushion.
Can\'t tell about the second one because of the angle, but I don\'t think so. Is it the same bird?
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They are ALL the same bird. I shipped her to TN this week, so those are all the pictures I have.
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Same bird again. Not bad for a bird in molt.
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Thank you all for posting these pictures. It\'s definitely helpful to have a visual representation in vivo of all the drawings and descriptions.
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The pictures of my lavs are not intended to be representative of the \"ideal\". This female has many faults, as so many in this project do. She is merely a link in the chain toward the end goal of an Ameraucana specimen of proper type/conformation/size/producer of proper egg color, etc. that just happens to be the color lavender. It\'s a work in progress. At 4lbs 7oz, she is up to standard weight for females, which is an accomplishment in and of itself.
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without the two copies of recessive white,
But you did say two copies of recessive white and that is what I was building on.
a work in progress
There is a quote I\'ve used many times. Some years it seemed as if there was no progress. Remember 2 steps forward and 1 step back still gets us closer to that goal of perfection (in a bird) that we will never achieve.
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a work in progress
There is a quote I\'ve used many times. Some years it seemed as if there was no progress. Remember 2 steps forward and 1 step back still gets us closer to that goal of perfection (in a bird) that we will never achieve.
The sheer fact that we are honest and upfront in evaluating our breeding stock is wonderful in itself..... The ability to bounce our breeding ideas back and forth is also great....
David, Mom (Carolyn) & I are all excited to be a part of this work in progress!!!