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Messages - Lee G

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1
Breeding / Re: Cross beak - genetic, environment...what?
« on: May 21, 2016, 08:48:36 AM »
But wouldn't dominance mean it'd be easier to breed around in poultry? Because a dominant gene can't help but express itself, and than you at least know what you're dealing with. Where as recessive genes can hide for generations, and pop out of the wood work when you pair certain birds/families and least expect it. A good reminder why test mating is so important though. Mammals are very different than avians, wow... My brain was not ready to look over that paper this morning Susan. lol Need more java, maybe more brain.  ::) haha


Oh, and I just confirmed my first (and hopefully last, knock on wood) cross beak chick this year. It was a blue from a batch of 30. All the rest look good, and still do, but sadly this little one was unlucky from the get go. :( Unfortunately I didn't think to take any head pics at hatch, but here is the chick at 10 days old with what has become obvious cross beak. I marked it as a potential cross beak from hatch, and grew it out until I could be sure.




2
Breeding / Re: Cross beak - genetic, environment...what?
« on: May 19, 2016, 09:34:36 AM »
One way I use to id (and cull) chicks that could be potential cross beaks can be done right from hatch, though I like to give them 24 hrs to fluff up, and shed the egg tooth. While holding the chick firmly in hand, tip its' head back and look closely at the top and bottom mandibles from the underside; they should be even on both sides, and fit together perfectly, as well as be nice and straight. Any kind of deviation from this, like showing more beak on one side than the other, or any kind of curve, etc, could be a potential cross beak cull within a few weeks…hope this helps others save a bit on feed and space. ;)

3
Breeding / Re: Cross beak - genetic, environment...what?
« on: May 19, 2016, 09:26:22 AM »
I agree with Harry, some strains are more prone to the deformity than others. Cross beak is an immediate cull for me. But interestingly enough, and according to one of my genetic books, it is a hard trait/defect to pin point inheritance, and wholly complex. Yes, it can be caused by too high of temperature during incubation, and even brought about by the environment. (Epigenetic's at play perhaps?) It’s also thought to be genetic, and recessive, and linked to the mb gene when homozygous. (Which explains why Ameraucanas seem more susceptible than other non bearded breeds, although it appears in all fowl.) But here’s the catch; both Hutt and Landauer found it was not possible to breed pure breeding cross beaked birds, even after heavily inbreeding for multiple generations. Birds thought to be impure for cross beak, produced cross beak offspring. Birds thought to be pure for cross beak, produced offspring with normal beaks. My book calls it ‘an extremity on multifactorial basis with incomplete penetrance.’  :o Alrighty then. I’ll stick to calling it an immediate cull on an individual basis, but won’t cull an entire family line because of it.

Good food for thought here.  :)

4
Breeding / Re: Purple sheen on black cockerel
« on: May 17, 2016, 10:19:10 AM »
I know I've said this before, but I truly believe our birds are the best teachers. There are no breeding mistakes, only lessons and experience to be gained. ;) Good luck with your hatching! :)

Love this, Lee! Thank you for sharing it!

-Temple in CT

 :)

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Breeding / Re: Purple sheen on black cockerel
« on: May 15, 2016, 08:42:42 AM »
Taken from my notes about breeding blacks...not sure who to credit, as it's quite old.

"Purple sheen is caused by too much black melanizer. Flat black is caused by too little black melanizers. The green sheen is caused by the correct amount. The black melanizers or enhancers are the genes that complete the colour black. It's basically a balancing act as far as breeding for it. A dull or flat black bird crossed to a purple or plum hue bird will usually produce good green sheen. Green sheen is not terribly difficult to produce one you establish it in your line."

I've never had a plum hue black, but I have had dull blacks, and can confirm when bred to the right mate, the offspring all had nice, green sheen. This was with gold based birds, not sure if a silver base would change that or not.

Personally, if you have the space and feed, I would pair him with your best black hen with good, green sheen and your best dull black hen, and see what can be learned from the offspring. I know I've said this before, but I truly believe our birds are the best teachers. There are no breeding mistakes, only lessons and experience to be gained. ;) Good luck with your hatching! :)

6
Breeding / Re: Age for permanent wing bands
« on: May 15, 2016, 08:20:27 AM »
Thanks Don. Since I already bought a boat load of coloured wing bands (and the handy dandy tool for applying), I've decided to use them again this year. They are great for marking/tracking individuals, no doubt, and I have quite a few chicks with split bases I need to keep track of...I also toe punch by matriarchal family, and leg band with coloured zips around 3-4 months. I like the idea of using slits too, and doubling my ID numbers. It's definitely nice to know who made who in my coops. :) (well, most of the time. Had a little pen mishap this spring, and learned chicken wire does not always keep rowdy roosters out, not when there's females on the other side.)

7
Breeding / Re: Age for permanent wing bands
« on: April 30, 2016, 12:02:31 PM »
I believe you can wing band any age of bird, but some ages are way easier than others. Day old chicks just feel too fragile to me. And wing banding adults was too hard and stressful on the bird, (as well as the owner ::)) in my experience. Last year I did my grow outs between 4 and 8 weeks, and well that age seemed to work the best (you're also not wasting as many bands on culls), I'm not really liking the wing bands as much as I thought I would. So I plan to just stick to toe punching and leg bands from now on. If it ain't broke, why fix it.

8
Breeding / Re: Breeder selling to hatchery?
« on: April 30, 2016, 11:39:48 AM »
 :) Here's my take on it:

I don’t think there’s anything too worry about. I’ve always felt that hatcheries have their place, and make an important contribution in getting people started in chicken keeping. Folks that choose to delve deeper into breeding poultry soon learn just how important selection of breeding stock is no matter where their stock comes from. So yeah, purchasing chickens from a good hatchery can give a person a start, but they need to be prepared to do some serious selection if they want to make progress towards their goals.

Personally, I’ve never felt there was anything wrong with starting with hatchery birds if that was the best source of stock available. Not all breeds are easy to get ones hands on, some are next to possible. Besides, I don’t think hatchery birds are bad per say. If anything, they are strong, resourceful chickens bred for production first and foremost. Of course, not all hatcheries are created equal, nor are their birds. (But neither are breeders if we're being honest.) Besides, I would think most hatcheries are run by skilled professionals who know what they are doing, or employ those that do. Maintaining huge, diverse gene pools on such a large scale is no small feat, imo. (and truly how many backyard breeders can say the same? I know I cannot.) So assuming hatchery = bad breeding is not always the case.

In fact, in some cases I think people would be farther ahead getting chicks directly from a good hatchery rather than buying from someone basically selling the same thing privately. Now I'm not talking about a well-established breeder who has been working hard and making good progress with their flock for 10+ years. That's still the best way to get a good start in any breed or variety imo. But there are many private sellers who sell chicks and eggs from a trio or small group they’ve kept back from their own hatchery chicks purchased the previous year. In both these cases one would need to be prepared to do some heavy, heavy culling...but you would likely get a wider range of genetic material to play with from chicks straight from the hatchery, rather than from a trio that came from the same hatchery. Just my few cents on the matter, hope that makes sense...

9
Breeding / Breeding Blue
« on: August 22, 2015, 12:08:00 PM »

10
Housing, Health & Hatching / Re: Over 2 decades of experience
« on: May 31, 2015, 11:15:42 AM »
Like!!!  :D

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Housing, Health & Hatching / Re: To wash or not to wash?
« on: April 03, 2015, 10:59:26 AM »
Did any of y'all once NOT wash, and then begin to? Did you notice a significant difference in hatch rate and chick survival?

I'm actually the reverse! I used to wash all my hatching eggs in warm water with bleach, but no longer bother when collecting from the home flock. My reasoning is one year I did an experiment, washed half, left half al'natural, and discovered no noticeable difference in my hatch rates or chick hardiness. So laziness wins now. lol I do use a separate incubator strictly for hatching though...that way my setting incubators always stay clean and pristine. A few drops of oxine in the water reservoir also works wonders to combat any kind of bacteria growth. 

I would probably wash any hatching eggs obtained from outside though.
Good luck!  :)

12
Housing, Health & Hatching / Re: Feed Recipes
« on: March 29, 2015, 02:31:17 PM »
You're totally right Sarah! The grains caused natural fermentation over time, and warmth helped to speed up the process. No wonder it smelled like I was brewing alcohol, because I was!  ;D whoops, lol

Lentils shouldn't be a problem. My birds love'em when I can get them. But I wouldn't introduce whole grains into the mix until the chicks are at least 12 weeks of age. That's the usual age I start around. Chick starter and water are good enough in the beginning, and you can always add vitamins and mineral supplements to their drinking water. Oh, and don't forget to provide grit when you do begin to gradually add whole grains.

Your chicks are gonna grow like lil' weeds, just wait and see!  :)

13
Breeding / Re: Skittles my special splash chick!
« on: March 28, 2015, 11:21:34 AM »
Skittles is one adorable chick. It'll be neat to see what he/she looks like all feathered in.  :)

14
Housing, Health & Hatching / Re: Feed Recipes
« on: March 28, 2015, 11:15:22 AM »
Sorry Sarah. I must have been having a moment the other morning. I only use wet ingredients in the mash, never mixed in with dry feed.

To make the wet mash I use a commercial ration for the base, which would either be 17% grower for the main flock, or 20% chick starter for chicks up to 8 weeks. For adults and youngsters, I add whole grains, mashed up boiled eggs, BOSS, and alfalfa pellets into a bucket. I fill with fresh water, stir well and let sit until morning. Just make sure to use a big enough bucket and leave some room at the top, because the mash will swell up as the pellets/grains soak up the water. The birds go absolutely nuts over this 'breakfast'. For chicks I just use starter and water, and basically do the same thing. Technically it's not fermenting, but it works for me. I do also ferment during the summer months, but found I have to be really careful not to overdo the time frame or my feed bin starts smelling like a still! LoL

I suggest you try soaking for a few birds, and see if you like the results.  :)


15
Housing, Health & Hatching / Re: Feed Recipes
« on: March 26, 2015, 11:19:23 AM »
Like Don, I use a commercial ration as a base and add other ingredients (whole grains, BOSS, old hard boiled eggs, shells and all) to increase protein and nutrients. I also use the same ingredients to make a wet mash I soak in water overnight and feed every morning. Soaking helps to soften hard grains, aid in digestion and supposedly increases protein levels by up to 30%. Not too sure about that one, but all I know is since I've started soaking and fermenting, my birds have never looked or performed better. Best of luck finding what works for you.  :)

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