Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Ameraucana Marketplace => Topic started by: Blue Egg Acres on July 25, 2006, 11:36:59 AM
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I am noticing a color variation between cockerels, all April hathced, and am wondering if it means anything as to their final plumage coloration as adults. The Standard calls for orange-red backs in the adult male. At this age they all have blue feathers on their backs still - some of the birds have blue lacing in these feathers and some have red lacing. Do any of you know if this means anything? I\'m needing to select a nice male for a customer and don\'t want to give him the wrong one!
Thanks!
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Barbara,
Could you post a picture of the chicks?
Tim
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Yes, I will do that within the next hour or so. Thanks Tim!
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While we are on the subject of feather color on chickens, I have a question on my two wheaten cockerels. These are my first ones, so I am not familiar with what the standard is on them.
My boys both have some odd things going on. One has alot of white feathers in his chest, but his is still changing colors right now. His head is still turning to that reddish color. So might those feathers just fall out before his permanent plumage comes in?
The other is, they both have alot of dark striping in the middle of the feathers on the hackles. Can these be \"pre\" adult feathers or is that what I am stuck with?
Thanks,
Jean
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Don\'t be in a hurry to cull wheaten and blue wheaten cockerels. Their colors and pattern change quite a bit as they mature. I think the last area to change is the muffs from buff (?) to black or blue. After that happens you should be able to sort out the good from the bad. Before that time you can cull for other characteristics like combs, lobe & eye color, etc.
I culled a bunch of bantam wheaten males that had a lot of black in their hackles, but the couple that I kept seem to be gradually getting better color in that area.
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I do have to get rid of one of them this weekend as I am culling. I will keep the one with the better shank color. He also has longer tail plumage than the other.
I am going to sell the other to a lady for breeding with some stock she thinks is pure from McMurray. She got some lovely wheaten/blue wheaten looking hens from them. I think they may be from McKinney\'s stock, as I believe they bought some of his chickens when he quit the business. So, he won\'t be gone for good if he should turn out great. I\'m sure I could borrow him if need be.
Jean
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Barbra,
Could you post a picture of the chicks?
Tim
Well, that took longer than expected. I had to resize the pic to upload them. There are 3 separate cockerels pictured. Hopefully I got the 2 different colors represented (I\'m color blind and it\'s very difficult to tell). Let me know if I dIdn\'t. My daughter will be here later today and we can try again.
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According to the original message, these birds were hatched in April, which makes them three months old. What you are looking at is juvenile plumage. They can\'t really be evaluated with much accuracy until they are at least twice that age. Like John said, you can\'t be in a hurry to cull for color traits with wheaten and blue-wheaten cockerels. At this stage you can probably cull for crooked toes, bad combs, poorly formed beaks, etc., etc. But not color. Give them a chance to finish out.
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At what age can you be sure about culling for lobe color in wheatens/blue wheatens?
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culling for lobe color
Mike may have a better answer here, but I would say as soon as any cockerel of any variety shows \"enamel\" white on his ear lobes he is a candidate for culling. If they all show it, keep the best available.
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Barbara,
Thanks for the pictures. I do not have wheaten in my breeding program but I should get a few just to have them around. I will save the pictures for future reference.
Tim
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I\'ve had wheatens/blue wheatens for 7 years and haven\'t given any thought to the juvenile plumage color in the males before. However, Sare pointed out to me the one of my BW cocks has a mix of red and blue feathers on his back whereas the other one (Champ) does not - his back is solid orange. Sara is also the one that noticed the differnce in the coloring of the 3-4 month old birds. We just wondered if it may indicate what to expect for adult plumage - maybe those with the blue lacing will have blue on the backs? Thought there might be some genetic info about it?
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Barbara,
There are genes that can cause black to extend into areas on a bird that are normally red or gold. An example is a birchen bird that is solid black. Normally male birchen birds have gold or silver in thier hackles, back and saddle feathers. The solid black birds have black intensifiers or extenders that cause black to replace the gold or silver.
There is also a gene called the patteren gene (Pg) that works with other genes to cause lacing, spangling or autosomal barring to form on a feather. But the coloration on your birds is different than that found in birds that have Pg.
Most lacing is a black(blue) lace on the end of the feather not a red lace on the end of a black(blue) feather.
The area of color that is effected on your birds is normally determined by the E locus gene and in this case the dominate wheaten or recessive wheaten gene. The feather under color of your birds looks to be gray so I would say your birds are recessive wheaten.
If the uncharacteristic coloration is found on adult birds it has a genetic component but nothing I have read about. Most likely it is the expression of a gene or gene interaction and it is caused by a black intensifier. If the coloration was only found in one bird, then it could be environmental.
There are many genes that are not identified in chickens. You may have one of those unidentified genes in your birds.
Tim
Want to learn some chicken genetics? Go to
http://home.earthlink.net/~100chickens/id5.html
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Okay Tim, thanks for the information.
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I was told one time by a very knowledgeable poultry geneticist that the lacing on the breasts of birchens (and the gold version which is brown red) is caused by the birchen gene at the e-locus and the pattern gene has nothing to do with the lacing of this particular color pattern. I do know that a lot of black cockerels with gold or silver in the hackle are split at the e-locus for extended black and wild type, and do not have the birchen gene. If someone has discovered the pattern gene is necessary for brown reds or birchens I would be interested in looking over the research report.
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Mike,
You are correct that the lacing found in birchen birds is not due to the Pg gene. Not all birchen birds have the lacing so there must be another gene that is interacting with the birchen gene to cause the lacing. Or it could be that another gene is covering the lacing on the birds that do not have lacing.
Pg is expressed on all of the feathers on a bird. The lacing I have seen in birchen birds is found on the breast of the bird.
I used the birchen gene as an example of how black intensifiers or extenders work. I have had E/eb males that have had some gold in the hackles and back region.
I have some birchen pullets now that are almost completely black. They have some of the black intensifiers in them and I will have to breed them out. Melanotic and charcoal are two that have been identified. To get a good brown red you would want to breed the birds as to remove the black intensifiers. That way you would get more gold in the hackles of the females and more in the hackles, back and saddle feathers of the males.
Tim
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I had posted awhile back asking for pics of wheaten &/or blue wheaten chicks, but got no response. I just found this thread & and these look very simular to mine. I am curious how they turned out, do you have any recent pics of the birds?
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I\'m sorry to take so long with this, I had to dig up the photos. These pics were taken at the end of August, so the birds were 4 - 5 months of age. There are wheaten, blue wheaten and splash wheaten males pictured here.
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Thank you,Barbara! They are just GORGEOUS! Look very much like the babies I hatched from my roo, Cyclone. I may be wrong, but I\'m pretty sure he came from your stock. I\'m hoping one or more of the cockerals turn out just like their father!
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I don\'t remember who you said you got Cyclone from? I can tell you whether or not he originated from my stock.
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I got him from Angela, on here after ,my roo, Tornado from Bantam Hill, got killed by dogs. I just checked w/ her and she said her neighbor got them (chicks) from you. He is QUITE the roo, rules the whole flock! B)
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I don\'t remember who you said you got Cyclone from? I can tell you whether or not he originated from my stock.
So, did he originate from your stock?
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Yes, and I\'m pretty sure Tornado did also. Michael of Bantam Hill got his start in wheatens/blue wheatens from me.
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Well they are(were in Tornado\'s case :( ) both beautiful guys... do you happen to have a website or more pics of your birds? The ones I\'ve seen here have all been gorgeous!! Am hoping to get some more chicks,eggs or pullets in the spring... am really loving the chicks he\'s thrown so far, one looks like he might grow to be the spittin\' image of his father!