Messages

46

Housing, Health & Hatching / Re: ?? What's the best brand incubator on the market??

« on: August 11, 2014, 10:17:58 AM »

all i would add is buy a digital thermometer/hygrometer to keep your temp & humidity honest and have fun 

I second this!

I've had nothing but good hatches since purchasing a Brinsea spot check thermometer and a separate hygrometer.  Proper temp/humidity really does make a difference. 

47

Breeding / Re: Tardy feather growth

« on: August 11, 2014, 09:42:20 AM »

Slow feathering is the result of a sex linked gene.   It shows up the most on male chicks, so this one will probably be a cockerel.   

My LF Black chicks that were slow feathering are hens...

Interesting.... I had one slow feathering silver female, the rest were male.

48

Exhibiting & Promoting / Re: Nominations for ABC officers

« on: August 10, 2014, 11:19:35 AM »

Nominations for office must be submitted by August 15th

Just a reminder to have all nominations and acceptances made by the 15th to be placed on the ballot.

Are new/from another country members allowed to vote? I'm a little confused about what I'm supposed to do, if anything?... 

Clarification would be great, thanks! 

49

Breeding / Re: year of the cockerels

« on: August 10, 2014, 10:40:54 AM »

Apologies Gordon. You’ll have to excuse my tenancy for complication. 

And I agree that keeping it simple, (KISS) is a great principle to follow. Many of the old masters believed simple was best, and going down the middle of the road. They bred the most outstanding fowl too, from what I understand, and not just fine feathers either, but the entire package.

So, do you need to know this stuff to breed chickens?  No. Does it deepen your understanding of what's going on in the breeding pen?  Yes.  Can it potentially deepen your enjoyment of the process?  Of course!  The more you know about anything, the more its secrets speak to you. --- Yellow House Farm

I think a lot of newbies like myself get hung up on different ‘methods’ and moving forward, often times before we have anything worthy to move ahead with.

This game is not a race, and it requires patience. I will do well to remember that. 

50

Exhibiting & Promoting / Re: Re: Spectator or Member?

« on: August 09, 2014, 11:00:59 AM »

Thanks John. You have a real nice looking setup. And good use of space too. 

51

Breeding / Re: year of the cockerels

« on: August 06, 2014, 10:37:24 AM »

On another poultry forum I frequent a trained geneticist recently wrote...

Do keep in mind that males contribute as much to diversity as females. If you restrict your male numbers too much, it doesn't matter how many females you keep. Effective population size (Ne) is a measure of diversity that includes numbers, relatedness, and gender balance, and is used in breeding programs for some species. If you apply it to small chook flocks, you get some interesting things. The offspring population from one male and 1000 females (or 10,000 females) has an Ne of slightly less than 4. The offspring population from two males and 2 females has an Ne of 4. (These calculations assume equal reproductive success among hens, and among roosters. Without equal success, Ne will drop somewhat).

Paraphrased, a flock of 1000 hens and one cock has the potential to produce as much genetic diversity in their chicks as a flock of two hens and two cocks

....cool, eh  it's something I've been contemplating a lot lately, that and how undervalued males are in poultry world in general.

Pair mating IS a lot of extra work, but well worth it in the end imo....especially when you're just getting started working with a new strain. Knowing who is producing what is vital to making any kind of progress forward. And good record keeping is essential, as is having a game plan. I used to think I could remember everything of importance, but soon learned I was sorely mistaken in that. lol Now I like that I can grab any bird in my flock, read their toe punch, and know their exact parentage and/or matriarchal line.

DeWayne, I do the same thing. One thing that made my pair matings a bit easier (and speedier) this season was the use of food colouring. A few drops in the vent of a hen for a few nights in a row, and any eggs laid in the next week or more will be faintly streaked with colour, making id a breeze. I used four colours; red, blue, green and yellow on individuals that were housed together and rotated cocks in. That way I could keep the small groups together (I find the birds are happiest and healthiest when kept in small, mobile flocks) and could still pedigree mate. Worked like a charm...minus my colour stained fingers. 

52

Breeding / Re: year of the cockerels

« on: August 05, 2014, 10:56:51 AM »

Well I think you guys having a year of the rooster are lucky! If you consider the fact that males contribute as much (if not more) genetic diversity to the entire flock as their female counterparts, well, having an over abundance of testosterone to select from can only be a good thing.   

I had hoped to have lots of cockerels to choose from myself, but now that everyone is grown up enough for me to sex, it has become clear I'm firmly in camp pullet for 2014. Grumble....lol


And nothin' like a nice, tight pea comb to complete the look of a well turned head. Oh lala! 
It will be interesting to see if my import chicks from Maryland develop larger combs than my own home flock, born and bred in colder climes. And if so, if I can get the combs back down in size in a few generations…epigenetics is pretty fascinating stuff. 

53

Breeding / Re: Culling for Duckfoot

« on: July 10, 2014, 10:17:34 AM »

Max, your black cockerel pictured is beautiful. I really like his shape and full breast.  What does he weigh?

sometimes it seems I take two steps forward and one step back all in the same year lol

Yup. I like to think its all part of the intricate art of breeding for improvement. Sometimes you have to backtrack three steps to make one step forward...or so I keep telling myself. lol

54

Breeding / Re: Culling for Duckfoot

« on: July 07, 2014, 11:23:59 AM »

Did you end up culling your cockerel Max? I ask because I think my duck foot carrier is my main cock bird too. He shows no visible signs of the deformity either, but seems to be the one throwing it to most of his offspring. I originally thought it was just coming from one pairing, though it appears I was wrong.  I'm seeing duck foot in both genders as well. This sucks. 

55

Breeding / Re: Duckfoot issues

« on: July 07, 2014, 11:12:02 AM »

Well, I'm glad if my ramblings helped any...and the fact you only had two to cull, and it's been taken care of.  That must be a relief.

I'm sad to say my duck foot chick count has gone up significantly over the past few days, and has me a little down in the dumps to be perfectly honest... 

I like a good challenge and all, but not understanding the genetics behind the deformity is making it hard to come up with the right plan...and one not doomed to failure from the start. And I can't help wondering if it's even worth my time? Not trying to sound harsh, but good quality feed isn't exactly cheap these days, and culls (as yummy as they are) are not what I want to spend most of my time, and the summer, growing out.

'You have what you tolerate!' are the words written across my coop log, words I am striving to follow in my breeding practices. Sigh...
I know what I have to do now, and will start the day by bucking up...

Thanks for posting this topic Jensen. It's nice to chat with others who can relate. My husband threatened to move my things out to a coop (is that supposed to be a punishment? haha) if he hears the word 'duckfoot' one more time...we'll just see about that! LOL

56

Breeding / Re: Duckfoot issues

« on: July 03, 2014, 04:23:24 PM »

Hi Jensen,
I share your duck foot woes unfortunately… 

I only learned about the dreaded DQ last year when I had it pop up in one of the blue/black strains I’m working with, and strangely enough, only in the best type females of the family. I didn’t catch it until the birds were 14 weeks plus, and even after ruthlessly culling everything with even a hint of duck foot, I’m still seeing a few cases again this year. The only difference is I know exactly which pair are producing the faulty chicks this time around…the real burn is the fact they’re also producing some of the years finest offspring with no visible duck foot …but I’m pretty certain the gene is there, hidden and recessive, waiting to rear its ugly foot down the road. Which leads me to believe it runs strong in the family line and is going to require numerous generations of test matings (and likely new blood) to rid myself of. It is a bit frustrating for sure, because good feet are essential for good balance and fertility. That and the fact nice legs just look nice.

Thought I'd post the SOP picture of duck foot for those fortunate enough not to have seen it in real life. My birds showing DF seem to have it to varying degrees and mostly on the right foot for some reason. Some are definitely more noticeable than others, though I’ve only had one pullet with it as pronounced as in the picture.



My tentative plan is to mate the sibs not showing the fault together and see what undesirables come up from the depths, as well as shop around for a strain with exceptional feet. (Fingers crossed my chick import comes through this time...I really, really need those feet!)

As for the duck foot producing parents, I haven’t had the gumption to reach for the axe yet... but thinking it will probably come to that…

Sorry you have to deal with this too…I’m curious to see your pictures though. Also hope others who’ve dealt with duck foot will chime in with advice on how to best combat this DQ…many thanks! 

57

Exhibiting & Promoting / Re: Terminology

« on: July 01, 2014, 12:03:36 PM »

Good article! Thank you for sharing it.

My thoughts are this: learning to use the correct terminology only makes sense, especially if you want to be taken seriously...

And Ralph Sturgeon's 'Start Where You Are With What You Have' is a wonderful little gem of a booklet. I encourage anyone with an interest in breeding chickens to find and purchase a copy.

Best $20 I spent in awhile. 

58

Breeding / Re: Tardy feather growth

« on: July 01, 2014, 10:29:26 AM »

Thank you Max  I appreciate the lead. 

And I have to say I think it's wonderful that so many of us our working towards real lacing on our birds!  Because nothing is more beautiful in my mind than a sharply laced blue in good condition...well, except for a large flock of such elusive blues running on the green...now that would be a stunning sight to behold! 

59

Breeding / Re: Tardy feather growth

« on: June 28, 2014, 10:17:00 AM »

Thank you for the suggestion Mike. I will try placing an ad in Feather Fancier. 

Last year I inquired about the subject with a Canadian poultry judge who travels in show bird circles, and was disappointed to learn she knew of no one raising exhibition quality Andalusians in Canada.  Or any Andalusians for that matter. Not surprising, as their large single combs would not do well without heat in the winter. Funny enough, I did manage to find a pair in my home province, but they were from hatchery stock and hardly had edging, let alone true lacing. The cock also leaked gold, and the hen never laid a single egg in all the months I had her. On processing day I discovered why. She had a 1/4 inch thick layer of yellow fat coating her organs.  It was pretty gross. Never seen anything like it, and hope I never do again. I doubt she would ever have laid again either.

'Long, tedious road back' is exactly why I keep putting the brakes on using SL Wyandottes. And yet the inner (stubborn) scientist in me wonders what if... I believe I have the time and am more than willing to commit for the long haul. And I'm fairly certain I could find a single combed version, because I often see them for sale as culls. If enough chicks were hatched to select from, it may not be as tedious a process as I imagine...the trick would be knowing what to look for and excessive test mating of each generation. There were be tons of culls though. Good thing we like to eat chicken around here! 

Another option I was considering was ordering 100 chicks from a hatchery, growing them up and hoping there is something in the mix I could use...definitely a gamble though....and unfortunately I missed my window for this year. Besides, I'm out of space in my grow out pens anyway.

Thanks again for your help Mike. It's nice to get another opinion on the matter.

60

Breeding / Re: Tardy feather growth

« on: June 27, 2014, 11:54:57 AM »

Mike, this is my first year working with the silvers. I purchased them off another breeder as adults last summer. I will ask the breeder and see if she recalls how they feathered in...as for why I went with an outcross within the breed, I was simply working with what I had available.
There are not that many pure strains of Ameraucanas up here in the great white north, let alone ones based on sex linked silver.  So when the opportunity presented itself to purchase a mature silver flock (and descendants of birds originally imported from John) I jumped at the chance. Am I going about this the wrong way? I realize it will take me a few generations to breed out wildtype (e+), but I figured outcrossing between the varieties will also help me to improve my silvers, as well as help keep type true.

No doubt finding a strain based on silver and test mating would be the easier road, but I don't think they exist here in Canada. And the majority of blue poultry I’ve seen (including my own flock) lack the necessary pattern genes to ever achieve true lacing. (Not without going outside the breed.) The best I can hope for is nice edging, which well pretty enough, isn’t the real deal. And I do want the real deal, and am slowly working towards it....

The formula I have down for lacing is: the pattern gene (Pg)  melanotic (Ml) and Columbian (Co) in homozygous form; on either birchen (ER) or extended black (E), and preferably sex linked silver (S)

I've been following along with Christie's progress and would give my right toe to get my hands on a pair Blue Andalusian's like she is working with. Unfortunately I've found no breeders in my country or any willing to import into Canada....and so I trek on with what I have available.

I am considering using SL Wyandottes, but the yellow skin, brown eggshell genes and rose combs are making me hesitate. And for good reason, ugh...Just not a lot of other options...do you have any suggestions? I would love to hear some others if so. Thank you