Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Ameraucana Marketplace => Topic started by: Blue Egg Acres on March 15, 2010, 07:22:38 PM
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I have an 2008 large fowl wheaten male that has yet to produce a fertile egg this season. He produced chicks last year. I have 2 cockerels that are producing 70 -100% fertility rate in their pens. Do I just need to give the \'08 cock a little more time? I\'ve read that the day length is as important to fertility in the male as it is to egg production in the female. I\'ve had lights coming on at 4:30 am since Thanksgiving.
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I know it isn\'t generally needed with Ameraucanas, but trim the feathers around the vents on both him and the hens. It may not help...but also won\'t hurt. You want every advantage possible.
Other ideas maybe to make sure he isn\'t too distracted by other birds in near by pens.
Take him out for a day and put him in a pen alone.
Hold him and pet him...show him the other pens of cocks and hens to give him some ideas before returning to his mates.
???
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Thanks for the ideas John. Trimming the feathers around the vent area is something I\'ve not done in the past (the old if it ain\'t broke don\'t fix it theiory) but after such disappointing results I have done this. I have 6 eggs I\'m putting in the incubator tomorrow to see if this helped. I\'ve observed him mounting the hens although I don\'t think he\'s been as active as the cockerels are.
Is there any reason to think he\'s infertile this year after having produced chicks last year?
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Barbara, after trimming the feathers around the vent, will your eggs be reflective of the change immediately, or will the previous sperm still be fertilizing (or not in your case) the eggs?
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trimming the feathers around the vent
The trimming won\'t affect how fertile the cock is. It should help in the mating process so he will better hit the target.
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I was asking - if the previous sperm were getting deposited but were not fertile, would they have affected the eggs in a way that would cause new sperm to be rejected for a period of time and would that mean you would have to wait a few days to know if anything you tried made a difference?
Don\'t know if that makes sense. I know what I\'m trying to say - just having a hard time spitting it out. I have become one of the \"old timers\" I used to talk about - only not the smart ones.
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I was asking - if the previous sperm were getting deposited but were not fertile, would they have affected the eggs in a way that would cause new sperm to be rejected for a period of time and would that mean you would have to wait a few days to know if anything you tried made a difference?
DON\'T KNOW THE ANSWER BUT MY QUESS IS THAT IT WOULD NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
Don\'t know if that makes sense. I know what I\'m trying to say - just having a hard time spitting it out. I have become one of the \"old timers\" I used to talk about - only not the smart ones.
JOIN THE CLUB!
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would cause new sperm to be rejected for a period of time
If the cock isn\'t fertile (shooting blanks) then non of this will help.
When birds mate that semen will be in the next egg to form.
http://ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=558&min=0&num=15
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I agree with John. If you have not had fertility up to this point, you should just get rid of him and move on. There is no way to know what may be wrong internally (by looking from the outside!) but in the end you don\'t want chicks from a bird with fertility problems or you will get more of the same in your offspring.
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If you talk with the Cornish guys, who are forced to breed their birds by AI, they will tell you that the males go sterile while they are molting and won\'t produce any semen until their molt is completed. I wouldn\'t be in a hurry to get rid of him if he produced good birds in the past.
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Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I\'m hanging on to him and going to give him another try soon.
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I would give him a little more spring weather before I put him in the stew pot.
Years ago, when groceries were cheap, I supplemented the rooster\'s diets with raw hamburger, canned tuna and home made oat or wheat sprouts. I don\'t know if it made a difference or if I was just lucky.
Now I am listening to Mike Gilbert\'s advice to use game bird breeder.
:0)
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game bird breeder
Even then I\'ve noticed the brand I\'m using this year is only 18% protein while the one I used the last few years (ADM) was 22%. Like many others I\'m trying to cut costs.
I\'ve also had concerns about the differences in ingredients between game bird and chicken feeds, so this year I\'m mixing 50/50 the 18% game bird breeder with 20% starter/grower. Both are pellets, from Kalmback feeds in OH.
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I was using the FRM game bird breeder crumbles but it was 24% so I switched to game bird breeder pellets from the same company but only 20%. I like the pellets better, less waste, but almost $2.00 more a bag. As soon as I\'m done collecting eggs to hatch, I\'ll go back to plain laying pellets.
The chickens will have to get by on a budget - just like me.
:0)
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game bird breeder
mixing 50/50 the 18% game bird breeder with 20% starter/grower.
Are you feeding this mix to your breeders (I\'ve never heard of giving chick starter to breeders)?
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giving chick starter to breeders
I had concerns that the Game Bird feed didn\'t have amino acids (Lysine, etc.) that all the chicken feed do. With these additives less overall protein is needed because they make it more effective. Feed formulas have changed a lot and continue to due to the different amino acids that are added. This year I mixed the 20% starter/grower with the 18% game bird breeder just to make sure the birds were getting all the amino acids, vitamins and minerals listed on the label under \"Guaranteed Analysis\".
A friend and I buy 3 tons of feed together and are getting ready to order so I called Kalmbach to ask what feed they recommend and let them know of my concerns. It turns out the game bird breeder has the amino acids in it. They just aren\'t listed because the law doesn\'t require them to be on game bird feed...only chicken feed...different regulations.
I\'ll go back to using 100% game bird breeder during the hatching season.
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I tried to look all around in my area for the Game Bird Breeder formula that Mike uses and can\'t get it down here. ADM does put out a Pen Pals balance (20% protein) that is to be mixed with scratch grains - I use the black rooster mix though. They carry the game bird feed here, just not the right kind (I think all but that, LOL).
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Zachsmamaw, the brand of feed probably won\'t matter as long as it is game bird breeder. Purina is found all over the country and they sell it. You can email the parent company and they will direct you to a local dealer. Since you are in the southeast, you probably have a Flint River Mills (FRM) dealer in your area too.
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I was using the game bird breeder...just not Layena. I\'ve tried all the feed mills around and TSC but no one will carry it. It\'s very frustrating actually. This is cattle and commercial poultry country. I\'m looking into getting a special mixture made but I would still have to travel down to Little Rock once a month. Not sure if the budget will allow? Just depends....
:)
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I will look into the FRM dealers...thanks