Ameraucana Breeders Club

The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Ameraucana Marketplace => Topic started by: Jean on January 27, 2011, 01:19:00 PM

Title: Lavender
Post by: Jean on January 27, 2011, 01:19:00 PM
Some of you have asked about getting the lavender birds admitted to the standard; so I thought I would start a thread to discuss it.

I do not know if we have enough consistency in the birds to show them at a qualifying meet or if we have five breeders who have bred them for five years now. (for both bantam and large fowl)

The obvious delay is the naming of the variety.  There are some out there that are against the name we have chosen.  It has gone so far as to name calling on a public forum by a person who is supposed to be one of the leaders of the ABA.

We will have to make headway with the Standards Committee with both the APA and ABA before we can begin the process.  One way I have thought about making some progress with them is to perhaps have a slight compromise on the variety name.

I wonder if we could offer our variety to be lavender/self blue or self blue/lavender.  This way the lavender term is still there and the self blue is still there.  We could still call our birds just lavender, no need to include the rest.

Or, we can wait to get the birds accepted; I see no rush.  We will continue to breed our lavender variety for a bit longer.

In the meantime I encourage everyone to join the APA or ABA and vote to implement change within the ranks by removing closed minded individuals.

Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.  
Title: Lavender
Post by: Cloverleaf Farm on January 27, 2011, 04:42:58 PM
I am happy to offer my opinion but, I don\'t think I have any right to say what they are called...I\'ve had my lavenders (both sizes) less than a year, I haven\'t spent years of my own blood, sweat and tears to make them what they are.  I get why those who have put in the time, effort, money, etc. want them called lavender, and I must admit that I would be disappointed to have to start calling them \"self blue\"...

I also think that \"self blue\" is too confusing for newbies to differentiate between regular \"blue\"...I can\'t even count how many posts I\'ve read elsewhere on that particular subject.  
While it would be really nice to get them accepted asap, and get the work of those who have bred them for so long recognized, I think it would also be a disservice to those same breeders to have them accepted under any other name than \"lavender\".
I\'m usually all for compromise, but why compromise with those that refuse to compromise with us?  I say stick to our guns and wait it out for \"lavender\".
Title: Lavender
Post by: Mike Gilbert on January 27, 2011, 05:44:10 PM
I believe we should have an in house referendum on this matter, so the ABA and APA knows how many voting members we have and how unified we are on the issue.   The sooner the better, but definitely before we try to get this color qualified as a new variety.   So far it has been just a very few of us expressing opinions on the message boards - at least the ones that I go to such as Showbirdbid.   Once we have that step done I believe we can better explain why we might be withholding APA/ABA dues and purchases until we get the name we want.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Cloverleaf Farm on January 27, 2011, 05:50:14 PM
Sounds good to me Mike!
Title: Lavender
Post by: HarryS on January 27, 2011, 06:14:41 PM
Perhaps we could have a club survey here like others had surveys with clicking on the dot.  One for the name Lavender or Self-blue (which has much confusion in many breeds as to what they have been calling self-blue).  And another on the same thread as to should we support the APA and ABA without giving the members a voice.  Sorry,  I am not a member of the APA or ABA.  
Title: Lavender
Post by: Jean on January 27, 2011, 06:26:41 PM
Quote from: HarryS
Perhaps we could have a club survey here like others had surveys with clicking on the dot.  One for the name Lavender or Self-blue (which has much confusion in many breeds as to what they have been calling self-blue).  And another on the same thread as to should we support the APA and ABA without giving the members a voice.  Sorry,  I am not a member of the APA or ABA.  


Harry, I am not suggesting we go either self-blue or lavender, but a combination name including both terms.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Beth C on January 27, 2011, 09:39:20 PM
Jeanine already said everything I was thinking, and since I doubt I could put it any better, I\'ll just say, \"Ditto!\"

I think the survey is a great idea to see where everyone stands.

I\'m not a member of the APA or ABA, either, and am debating the best course of action. While I\'d like to join to have a voice, I\'m reluctant to hand them my money until they\'re willing to work with us on this...
Title: Lavender
Post by: dak on January 27, 2011, 11:50:25 PM
I have a small group of LF lavs and would like to see them recognized as Lavender, however from what I\'ve gathered from other forums,  \"the powers that be\" are dead set against this.  There has been a similar discussion regarding lavender vs. self-blue bantam cochins on the cochin forum.  It looks like the cochin \"powers that be\" will be going with self-blue when and if the time comes to get them recognized.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Cloverleaf Farm on January 28, 2011, 12:36:05 AM
It\'s really too bad some of the other breed organizations are giving in so easily..makes it harder for the rest of us.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Beth C on January 28, 2011, 06:49:18 AM
Maybe we need to contact some of the other breed clubs about banding together? If they realize someone else will fight with them, they might not be so quick to give in.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Mike Gilbert on January 28, 2011, 10:21:26 AM
If you are not members of the APA and ABA, your opinion will mean nothing to them.  Maybe this is a lost cause.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Jean on January 28, 2011, 11:02:29 AM
Quote from: Beth C
Maybe we need to contact some of the other breed clubs about banding together? If they realize someone else will fight with them, they might not be so quick to give in.


We did try to get with the other clubs, but currently we are only joined together with the orpington club in this matter.  The silkie club went ahead to get the birds accepted under self blue.  The President of the cochin club wants self blue, but they are quite a ways out to consider getting them accepted.

I have not spoken to the \"fav\" club yet, but will look into it.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Cloverleaf Farm on January 28, 2011, 12:03:41 PM
Sure you have, you just didn\'t know it! LOL  The Fav club is WAY too far off to thing about it, though we are calling them lavender at this point.  There are just a few breeders who have just barely started with them...
Title: Lavender
Post by: jerryse on January 28, 2011, 03:36:12 PM
Seems to me that I remember a time when we were told that we would never get our breed in the standard ever.Seems that anything with lavender in the name may satisfy both sides.After all Ameraucana was a compromise.I remember American Araucana,Araublue,and Iowa blue also on the ballot.
Title: Lavender
Post by: John on January 28, 2011, 03:44:27 PM
I think the results so far on the \"Lavender Only\" poll are interesting.  Of course it is not anything official and you have to vote to see the results, so I don\'t want to discuss them here yet.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Cloverleaf Farm on January 28, 2011, 04:18:02 PM
Quote from: John
I think the results so far on the \"Lavender Only\" poll are interesting.  Of course it is not anything official and you have to vote to see the results, so I don\'t want to discuss them here yet.


Wow - a few more votes over there since I checked a couple of hours ago...interesting indeed! ;)
Title: Lavender
Post by: Cloverleaf Farm on January 31, 2011, 03:50:21 PM
Quote from: Cloverleaf Farm
Sure you have, you just didn\'t know it! LOL  The Fav club is WAY too far off to thing about it, though we are calling them lavender at this point.  There are just a few breeders who have just barely started with them...


I also just posted an official thread about it on the Fav club site...I\'ll keep you updated on what they say. :)  Though I do know that Peter Merlin agrees with us wholeheartedly.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Guest on February 01, 2011, 09:53:29 AM
I have an idea.......though i know its not my say. What if we called it blue lavender or lavender blue?  :thinking:
Title: Lavender
Post by: John on February 01, 2011, 11:47:39 AM
Quote
lavender blue?

That was a beautiful hit back in 59 for Sammy Turner...dilly, dilly...but that has nothing to do with chickens.
If anything some of the anti-lavender crowd are willing to consider self blue/lavender or lavender/self blue.
If we are patient and keep promoting and showing our lavenders in a possitive manner as lavenders we will eventually win by acclamation!
Title: Lavender
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 01, 2011, 12:14:26 PM
John, I hope I live long enough to see it.   A lot of the dissenters are younger than I am.   I was thinking it would be nice if only breeds were recognized and colors just described, and the various names given to the different colors.   Then there would be no qualifying for different colors, and any variety in any breed would be eligible for BV and the higher awards.
If there is ever a new national poultry organization I really believe that would be the way to go.
Title: Lavender
Post by: John on February 01, 2011, 07:38:51 PM
Quote
If there is ever a new national poultry organization I really believe that would be the way to go.

It reminds me of the difference between remodeling an old farm house and building a new home.  Building new from a new foundation up is the way to go in my opinion.  
The APA and ABA really should just merge.  They are in cahoots and one won\'t do anything without the other as it is.  I believe the ABA is the one that is more dead set against \"lavender\" and if the Silkie had been only a LF breed and only required recognition from the APA they may have had a chance at \"Lavender\".  
Quote
I was thinking it would be nice if only breeds were recognized and colors just described, and the various names given to the different colors. Then there would be no qualifying for different colors, and any variety in any breed would be eligible for BV and the higher awards.

That\'s a thought that I would have never came up with.  It\'s worth considering.  
There are so many problems with the Standard as it is.  I think it would be better to write a new one with an open mind than to try to make little changes here and there.  
The classes are messed up.  How many breeds of Rhode Island chickens are there?  RIR with a single comb is a different class than RIR with a rose comb.  A RI that is red is a different breed than a RI white.
Ameraucana chickens were developed in...you guessed it...America, just like RI, Delaware, Wyandotte, etc.  If they wanted to continue with the American class why didn\'t they put Ameraucanas in it?
I could go on for hours, but there are more important things in life.  
Title: Lavender
Post by: Birch Run Farm on February 02, 2011, 07:48:24 AM
And they are putting Marans in AOSB too.  They are  French breed, should be Continental.  But I agree with the idea ameraucana and even araucana be added to the American Class, they ARE American developed breeds.

Is it just me or does the APA seem to fear change?
Title: Lavender
Post by: Mike Gilbert on February 02, 2011, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: Birch Run Farm

Is it just me or does the APA seem to fear change?


I think that is part of it.  The other part is they just don\'t want to learn anything new.   I have been criticized a number of times for talking about genetics.  And I am no expert by any means, just have a grasp of a few basics.

John, the other thing I would do differently if there were a new organization is make the Standard a loose leaf product only, with page numbers and revision dates on each page.
That way when changes are made the Standard could be updated by replacing just the appropriate pages.  This would save a tremendous amount of expense for both the organization and its members, not to mention the time and work it takes to produce a whole new Standard.  And that would also make editing mistakes easily correctible.   There would be a header section with the latest revision date of each page listed so people would know when the last change or edit was made.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Cloverleaf Farm on February 02, 2011, 01:36:35 PM
Hmmm...sounds to me like we have our Pres and VP of the \"new and improved\" national club right here....  ;)

Or...if you guys ran for APA or ABA offices, I know lots of folks that would vote for change...  ;)
Title: Lavender
Post by: John on February 02, 2011, 01:50:50 PM
Quote
make the Standard a loose leaf product only

Why would you want to move a 19th century organization in the 21st?  
Tradition, heritage and history are nice, but organizations that resist progress...don\'t progress.
Title: Lavender
Post by: Guest on February 02, 2011, 04:29:10 PM
kinda like the apa dosent like splash the aba dont like word lavender