Ameraucana Breeders Club
The Official Forum of the Ameraucana Breeders Club => Breeding => Topic started by: Mike Gilbert on January 13, 2012, 03:44:37 PM
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I also just purchased a Silver flock and they came with a blue silver hen, 2 blue silver pullets and a blue silver cockrel. They are still in quarentine and no one is laying yet, but I\'m sure I\'ll be having lots of questions for you all. I\'ve always loved the silver color but the genetics of it are still abit intimidating to me.
Interesting, I didn\'t know anyone made blue silvers except yours truly, and they went to very few homes from here. Did someone get tired of playing with them?
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Actually, the gentleman said that 2 silver hens, the blue silver hen, and 2 silver roosters came directly from you. I always take that sort of thing with a grain of salt, and try to just judge the birds by what you can physically see. But I know you are one of the few who work with the blue silvers. I was thrilled to be able to snap them up, and figured if they were your lines, then that was just a bonus! I can PM you the man\'s name if you would like...
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Well, I don\'t get private messages on this site, but you can email me. I would appreciate it! I have not had any silvers or blue silvers for years, so some of those birds must be getting quite old.
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I hope you post pictures of those; I bet they are beautiful.
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Are they bantams or LF?
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Email sent!
I\'ll get some pics, right now they are in quarentine, so I\'m trying not to handle them too much (hard to keep my paws off them but...). They are large fowl. I need to get photos of everybody, this weather stinks and I hate cooped pictures. Never does justice of thier coloring/ conformation. I\'ll get some pics and start a new threadt to unhijack this one.
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I don\'t know if they are laying for you or if the seller said, but how is the eggs color and how flighty are they?
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Email sent!
I\'ll get some pics, right now they are in quarentine, so I\'m trying not to handle them too much (hard to keep my paws off them but...). They are large fowl. I need to get photos of everybody, this weather stinks and I hate cooped pictures. Never does justice of thier coloring/ conformation. I\'ll get some pics and start a new threadt to unhijack this one.
ok looking forward to it
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Can\'t wait to see pictures.
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How did you make them Mike?
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Silver male over blue pullet, then those carrying blue back to straight silver for several generations. Pretty much the same way the first blue wheaten bantams were made back in the late \'70\'s and early \'80\'s. Piece of cake.
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Okay, never posted photos on here so not sure if this worked! Also these pictures do not do them any justice at all, they don\'t look this miserable in person. But it gives an idea of color. I LOVE the blue silver coloring on the roo, though he has a bit of red leaking (you can pretty much see the extent of it in the photos). The one Silver rooster has comb issues, as does two of his sons, so that will be something for me to think about. Hopefully they are correct in thier coloring, I\'ve never seen a blue silver in person and couldn\'t find any photos to compare them to!
As for egg color, he didn\'t have any photos, and they\'ve only been here a week (that is why they are still in my quarantine pens), so I\'ll get to be surprised when they lay...
Blue Silver Hen (She was pretty POed with me)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas020.jpg)
Two Silver Hens with Blue Silver Hen on Left and Silver Roo with poor comb
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas013.jpg)
Blue Silver Cockerel
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas012.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas011.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas007.jpg)
Blue Silver Pullet
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas004.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas003.jpg)
Two Silver Hens in Back with better Silver Roo and two blue pullets in front
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverAmeraucanas016.jpg)
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They are a really neat color!!!
In theory, could the silver blue birds be used to increase size in our silvers? About how many generations before we are back to the pure silver gene?
Before I get into trouble, let me say that I am not planning on trying this here in my silver pens!!! :p
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These birds are probably already bigger than most other silvers out there.
I hope to take some pictures in the next couple days of what a typical silver pullet looks like and how my outcrosses have turned out.
It\'s a big difference.
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I don\'t know if they are laying for you or if the seller said, but how is the eggs color and how flighty are they?
When I had them, the eggs were a light blue, a shade I would call ice blue. No trace of green, but not the darker shade of blue many people prefer. Compared with my brown reds, they were a little more nervous type of bird, although some were OK. I think they could be improved over time in that respect through selection pressure.
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could the silver blue birds be used to increase size in our silvers?
The blues that Mike used to create them would have brought an increase in size. It could have been lost already though.
The outcrosses that Jean and I have made to blacks have resulted in larger silver strains also.
About how many generations before we are back to the pure silver gene?
If you mean wildtype (e+/e+) then they were there when \"chipmunk\" stripped chicks hatched the 2nd generation.
If you mean the silver color (S) then it was there with the 1st generation of pullets due to the original cross he made. If he didn\'t breed from any F1 cockerels they were pure for silver all along.
I think they could be improved over time in that respect through selection pressure.
Silvers, both LF and bantams, have always been the flightiest of all Ameraucanas. I have often wondered if the trait is connected to the wildtype gene.
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John, I agree with what you are saying, but when you cross black with silver, and then back to silver, some of the modifying genes that make a black bird totally black (or blue as the case may be) usually come along, and I\'m not speaking of E obviously. Ml (melanotic) and Cha (charcoal) are two known examples of dominant modifying genes that most likely would also have to be bred out of the silvers in order to get back to a silvery gray female Ameaucana. I\'m fairly certain there may be other unknown modifying genes that come into play as well. I originally made the blue cross in the attempt to eliminate shafting (didn\'t really work) and to help lighten up the shade of silvery gray in the females. So the blue silvers were really a byproduct of an attempt to improve my silvers.
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would also have to be bred out of the silvers in order to get back to a silvery gray
Yes, you are right. I only was talking about the silver (S) and wildtype (e+) genes, since Jess mentioned \"gene\".
Mike and some others know I outcrossed most of my LF varieties to blacks in recent years (and different times over the decades). It only takes a couple years to get back to having varieties \"pure\" at the e-locus...the foundation of any variety. The problem is there are secondary genes and sometimes unknown modifying genes that are needed to create a color variety. Selecting for and against all these genes can take many years. The odds are not in favor of a bird being \"pure\" for each and every gene required to make it whatever variety it is supposed to be.
The good news is that thru my outcrosses I\'ve seen improved size and reduced shafting in my LF silvers.
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These birds are probably already bigger than most other silvers out there.
I hope to take some pictures in the next couple days of what a typical silver pullet looks like and how my outcrosses have turned out.
It\'s a big difference.
Can\'t wait to see pictures. I like the Silver Ameraucana variety. I have Silvers and have been debating on whether I want to do an outcross to black to improve them.
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Silvers, both LF and bantams, have always been the flightiest of all Ameraucanas. I have often wondered if the trait is connected to the wildtype gene.
They can fly pretty good too!!!! They are the best foragers in my flock because they tend to wander farther than the rest and they like to roost high.
I\'m going out to get those photos...
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when you cross black with silver, and then back to silver
FYI...This year is the first year that all the silver breeders in my main LF silver breeding coop are 1/4 black. There are 2 cockerels and 12 pullets in there and they all have good silver phenotype. I\'ll cull all day-old chicks that don\'t show the correct phenotype.
Progress is being made!
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Ok, got my pictures. I had to use my older camera, so hope they aren\'t to grainy. This is my grow out area.
Typical silver variety ameraucana hen:
(http://assets.backyardchickens.com.s3.amazonaws.com/0/02/313x355px-LL-029908f6_006.jpeg)
One of this year pullets:
(http://assets.backyardchickens.com.s3.amazonaws.com/7/7c/403x363px-LL-7cdd81d1_007.jpeg)
This is what a bird that retains too many melanizers looks like. She\'s grumpy because she is trying to set; it\'s about 20 degrees outside.
(http://assets.backyardchickens.com.s3.amazonaws.com/9/90/600x498px-LL-90c2b7f4_009.jpeg)
The onlysilver cockerel I saved this year:
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/6079930/width/600/height/450/flags/LL)
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Your cockerel is very similar to my two cockerels from what I can see.....I have one cockerel with a solid black chest and one with some markings on his chest.....
Thanks for sharing pix! :D
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I love the pics of the Blue Silvers! Very interesting!
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Jean I think you made a huge improvement in type in just one generation with that silver hen- wow!
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Ohhh wow I REALLY like the blue silvers!! The silvers are my least favorite color but the blue silvers are stunning!
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Wow, Jean those photos are pretty striking. It is really neat to see how much they can improve on thier parents!
Does anyone know about the red on the silver blue cockerel\'s wing? I assume it\'s not supposed to be there... If it doesn\'t get any worse, is it a deal breaker? Should I treat it like normal red leaking, and just use him as yard candy? He is the only one who has it. Should I assume it came from the blue Silver hen (I\'m assuming that\'s his mom)?
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If he is all you have, just breed him and hatch lots of chicks. You\'re bound to get a couple that are clean.
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I had found an older post about trying to develop the Blue Silvers, is anyone still working on them? I am very intersted in doing this and was wondering what problems people have run into.
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I have some blue silvers with an added cuckoo gene popping up in my lavender cuckoo projects. I tried to post a pic, btu it was too big.
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I have the first generation of blue silvers hatching now but I am a little confused. First to say, I only have the one blue hen in with a silver male so I know which eggs are hers and there is no fence jumping. I thought that the first generation would all be either blue or black. Some of the chicks that are hatching are coming out with the silver pattern. Not sure if they carry blue also or not but is this correct or am I getting lucky geneticly.
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Your blue hen is not pure for E or E^R, but split for wild type (e+). Lucky choice on that hen, it saved you a raising an extra generation in your project. Congrats!
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So that is good for my Blue Silver project but not for my BBS lines :( Who should I contact to try to get some nice BBS eggs?
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Some new pics of some of my blue silvers. Maybe some day it will be warmer then 20 degrees and windy when I take pictures of them.
This is my rooster, a hen, and a pullet.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverTrio030512-1.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverTrio030512.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/FawnLaneFarm/BlueSilverTrio2030512.jpg)
I\'m really loving this color!
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Nice, tight comb on that rooster. How are they doing for temperament? Flighty or calm?
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I really like the color on them :D
Mike, did you ever hatch any splash silvers? I wonder what they would like, or would they just be a washed out mess.
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I really like the color on them :D
Mike, did you ever hatch any splash silvers? I wonder what they would like, or would they just be a washed out mess.
No I never did, always crossed blue silver with silver. I wouldn\'t think that splash silver would look like much.
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Yes, I am hoping his comb stays this nice and doesn\'t explode. His father came with him, and has a pretty nice comb too, so I\'m keeping my fingers crossed. I have a second male with now where near as nice a comb, and a bunch of sons of his that seem to be following in his footsteps (floopy, crooked and not well defined), so this guy may get alot of use.
I\'d say they\'re not terribly flighty. 2 of the silver hens are the flightest of the bunch. It took me two days to catch the one hen when she escaped after I vaccinated her (she was trapped in my barn, but kept hiding under the wagons). Still no eggs yet, but they are also still in tiny pens waiting for my hubby to get my new coop off of our trailer. So they are probably alittle stressed.
Of course, I also spend most of my time playing with/handling the blue silvers. I too am really like the color, especially on the cockerel! I find myself prefering it to the normal silver males.
Mike, did you ever hatch any splash silvers? I wonder what they would like, or would they just be a washed out mess.
I wondered this too... I have these three birds in seperate pens so that I just get silver and blue silver, but also wondered about splash silver? I was leaning towards \"washed out mess\"? Any experience?
ETA
Never mind we were typing at the same time!
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Those are really pretty. What did they look like as chicks?
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I just wondered how this project is going? For some unknown reason I am thinking next year I might want to play around with these. I have had a lot of nice silver chicks hatch this year (at least look real good as far as shafting), also like the Blues I hatched also, I just won't tell my wife yet :-X
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Here is a pic of a blue silver pullet of my own breeding.
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Sweet so someone is still working on these. How many other people are still working on them does any one know?????
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Have not been on in a while but wanted to update on my Blue Silver project. I ended up keeping 1 BS roo and 3 BS hens. I plan on hatching more this spring. My roo has some red leakage so I will have to keep an eye on that and see how it is passed on to future generations. I guess that I what I get for using an unknown blue hen to start my project.
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/9087504/width/900/height/900/flags/LL)
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/9087505/width/900/height/900/flags/LL)
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Thanks for giving us an update on your project! The silvers are my favorite of the varieties, so seeing a blue one is a treat.
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Hopefully I can post a few pics of my first attempt at the Blue Silver cross. I used two unknown blue hens. Might keep these for EE's as one of them the comb doesn't look like a pea comb. They are pretty girls, and one has a really nice beard and muff. Comments welcome!
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Ok despite my wife's frustration I have gone and done it :-\. My first generation of Silver Blues are on the ground ;D. I have 4 Blue's from a Black cock over Silver hen's and am expecting another hatch in 4 days. The next hatch is mainly from a Silver cock over Blue hen's. I should keep all Blue pullets from this cross and put a Silver cock over them. My real question is this.........should I take the F2 pullets and put a Silver cock over them or breed F2 to F2 to try and keep pattern genes and all the other benefits the blues should bring to this cross? In my case size (Blue cock weighs just over 8lbs), egg color and lacing? Which I have been working on in my Blues. I realize breeding back to Silver will get me there quicker but just wondering if the benefits will be worth it? All feed back is welcome good and bad ;)
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Lost my best Blue Silver 2nd gen prospect to a coon attack this spring. Still plugging away at them, but gathering better known blue pullets to grow out and work with. First attempts were with unkowns.
Have had two major predator attacks this year, hence I am working on the pen area to fortify as well as make safe breeding/grow out areas for the birds. In some ways it has set me back (on my ass) and in other ways it has helped move me forward also.
Finally understanding that this color variety of Silver is seriously slow to mature. Hoping adding Blue to the mix will help bring back some blue in the egg as well as make some beautiful Blue Silver birds. I'm hooked!
Hope to see updates from others on their Blue Silver projects.
Chris
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Predation plain old sucks. Sorry for your losses, Chris. And the worst of it is, the scoundrels always have impeccable taste and go for the best birds…or maybe they read the SOP now too. heh :-\
Anyway, I’m glad to hear you are keeping on with the project, (and everyone else too) because I think the blue silvers are stunning to behold!
In fact, I’m excited because I may have inadvertently made some (or the means to make some) when I bred a silver cock over two splash hens. One of my original objectives was to make blue S/- based pullets, from which the best would be chosen to bring sex linked silver over to my blue/splash families, as well as improve overall feather quality in the line. The pure silver birds I have all have superior feathers to my other stock, and I’m pleased to see the F1 generation are already showing much better feather width/strength than their parents. One of the splash hens I used has somewhat brittle feathers, (she often looks ratty around the edges) but man, does she ever throw pullets with nice shape. If only they'd all gotten her tail too...Ah well. Rome wasn't built in a day. ;)
The blue silver splits in the picture below are the splash hen's daughters. They range in age from 9 weeks up to 12 weeks. They still have a lot of growing to do, but a couple are looking promising. (http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r192/Lees-Pics/2014peeps232.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/Lees-Pics/media/2014peeps232.jpg.html)
I love the silvery sheen to their feathers
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r192/Lees-Pics/2014peeps237.jpg) (http://s144.photobucket.com/user/Lees-Pics/media/2014peeps237.jpg.html)
I didn’t plan on getting hooked on silvers, but somehow they’ve become one of my favorite varieties over the last year. Add blue... beautiful, elusive blue; a colour so lovely when clean and even, yet so hard to achieve and maintain. Well, it just doesn’t get much better than that. 8)
I’m in. ;D
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Ok despite my wife's frustration I have gone and done it :-\. My first generation of Silver Blues are on the ground ;D. I have 4 Blue's from a Black cock over Silver hen's and am expecting another hatch in 4 days. The next hatch is mainly from a Silver cock over Blue hen's. I should keep all Blue pullets from this cross and put a Silver cock over them. My real question is this.........should I take the F2 pullets and put a Silver cock over them or breed F2 to F2 to try and keep pattern genes and all the other benefits the blues should bring to this cross? In my case size (Blue cock weighs just over 8lbs), egg color and lacing? Which I have been working on in my Blues. I realize breeding back to Silver will get me there quicker but just wondering if the benefits will be worth it? All feed back is welcome good and bad ;)
Russ, I would try the cross both ways if space allows. It’s always interesting and informative to see how the genes mesh and recombine, and you can never be 100% percent certain what you'll get. I’d love to see your results sometime. :)
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Thanks for the encouragement Lee! Your pullets are gorgeous! Please keep us updated on their progress. It's nice to know others are working on this wonderful combination. You too Russ, let's have some pictures please!?!
Chris K
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Thanks Chris, I will do that. I wish it were easier to share stock across the border, because I have plenty of extras too. Maybe one day.... ;)
Ya, bring on the pictures folks! We vant to see your birds! :P